Unconditioned Reality,Universal Soul,Universal Intellect.etc

Post by **Admin** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:57 pm

shivaathervedi wrote: Also you did not address my question, why MSMS just started majalis in sub continent for Satpunthi khojas (where they receive Farmans) by EXCLUDING non khoja jamaits of Central Asia, China, and middle East?

You are mistaken, Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah did not start Mijlases except for Chandraat Mijlas. All other including Baytul Khayal existed since time immemorial. For some Mijlases of Sacrifice or Service, the present Imam has made Farmans explaining that they go back to the time of Hazrat Ali.

Oh I know you will say there were 4 Khoja servants in the service of Bibi Fatima as per Ginans so the Mijlas at the time of Hazrat Ali was still a Khoja Mijlas....

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:01 pm

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote: Also you did not address my question, why MSMS just started majalis in sub continent for Satpunthi khojas (where they receive Farmans) by EXCLUDING non khoja jamaits of Central Asia, China, and middle East?
You are mistaken, Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah did not start Mijlases except for Chandraat Mijlas. All other including Baytul Khayal existed since time immemorial. For some Mijlases of Sacrifice or Service, the present Imam has made Farmans explaining that they go back to the time of Hazrat Ali.

Oh I know you will say there were 4 Khoja servants in the service of Bibi Fatima as per Ginans so the Mijlas at the time of Hazrat Ali was still a Khoja Mijlas....

In which Imam's time, majalis of life, F, N, and without name top majlis were started? Sure these were not from primordial times.
During the Momin Chetamani discussion (of Syed Imam Shah) it was refuted that there were any khojas at time of Prophet Muhammad, or Prophet gave Bibi Fatima 4 khojas as dowry. Please re visit the Momim Chetamani thread.

Post by **Admin** » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:07 pm

shivaathervedi wrote:
Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote: Also you did not address my question, why MSMS just started majalis in sub continent for Satpunthi khojas (where they receive Farmans) by EXCLUDING non khoja jamaits of Central Asia, China, and middle East?
You are mistaken, Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah did not start Mijlases except for Chandraat Mijlas. All other including Baytul Khayal existed since time immemorial. For some Mijlases of Sacrifice or Service, the present Imam has made Farmans explaining that they go back to the time of Hazrat Ali.

Oh I know you will say there were 4 Khoja servants in the service of Bibi Fatima as per Ginans so the Mijlas at the time of Hazrat Ali was still a Khoja Mijlas....
In which Imam's time, majalis of life, F, N, and without name top majlis were started? Sure these were not from primordial times.
During the Momin Chetamani discussion (of Syed Imam Shah) it was refuted that there were any khojas at time of Prophet Muhammad, or Prophet gave Bibi Fatima 4 khojas as dowry. Please re visit the Momim Chetamani thread.

Whatever Moman Chetamni has said, it has said. No one can pretend Moman Chetamni did not say this. BK mijlas goes at least as far as Mukhi Harischandra and Tara Rani's time. I know you will not agree and this is the least of my worry. As I said several time, please read a little bit more on the Ismaili faith before posting

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:05 am

shivaathervedi wrote: During the Momin Chetamani discussion (of Syed Imam Shah) it was refuted that there were any khojas at time of Prophet Muhammad, or Prophet gave Bibi Fatima 4 khojas as dowry. Please re visit the Momim Chetamani thread.

Sayyed Imam Shah in the Ginan: Tran tran ved states:

ejee aad unnaade aa satpa(n)th saacho
enne pa(n)the chaddee koi na valleeyo paachhojee............11

Since the beginning and indeed the pre-eternity this religion is the true one.
Anyone who has travelled upon this path has not returned.

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/23179

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:25 pm

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Admin wrote: You are mistaken, Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah did not start Mijlases except for Chandraat Mijlas. All other including Baytul Khayal existed since time immemorial. For some Mijlases of Sacrifice or Service, the present Imam has made Farmans explaining that they go back to the time of Hazrat Ali.

Oh I know you will say there were 4 Khoja servants in the service of Bibi Fatima as per Ginans so the Mijlas at the time of Hazrat Ali was still a Khoja Mijlas....
In which Imam's time, majalis of life, F, N, and without name top majlis were started? Sure these were not from primordial times.
During the Momin Chetamani discussion (of Syed Imam Shah) it was refuted that there were any khojas at time of Prophet Muhammad, or Prophet gave Bibi Fatima 4 khojas as dowry. Please re visit the Momim Chetamani thread.
Whatever Moman Chetamni has said, it has said. No one can pretend Moman Chetamni did not say this. BK mijlas goes at least as far as Mukhi Harischandra and Tara Rani's time. I know you will not agree and this is the least of my worry. As I said several time, please read a little bit more on the Ismaili faith before posting

You did not address my question, in which Imam's time ,majalis of life, F, N, AND TOP MAJLIS started?
Religious get to gather, discussions forums, sat sungs exit from beginning. The question is related to modern time majalis.
The word Ismailism did not existed in times of Tara rani.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:34 pm

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote: During the Momin Chetamani discussion (of Syed Imam Shah) it was refuted that there were any khojas at time of Prophet Muhammad, or Prophet gave Bibi Fatima 4 khojas as dowry. Please re visit the Momim Chetamani thread.
Sayyed Imam Shah in the Ginan: Tran tran ved states:

ejee aad unnaade aa satpa(n)th saacho
enne pa(n)the chaddee koi na valleeyo paachhojee............11

Since the beginning and indeed the pre-eternity this religion is the true one.
Anyone who has travelled upon this path has not returned.

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/23179

Till today majority of Central Asian Ismailis and Arab Ismailis do not know about Veds and stories mentioned in that literature. You should know literally how that literature was developed. Pirs used that literature through Ginans to prove their point. From Hari to Naklanki.
It is aslo said by Pir Saheb;
KALEY BHOJAN JAMIYA TENA AAJHE SHA WAKHAN RE.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:50 pm

shivaathervedi wrote:
Till today majority of Central Asian Ismailis and Arab Ismailis do not know about Veds and stories mentioned in that literature.

Today there is no excuse not to know. Knowledge is becoming increasingly available.

That is the strength of diversity. Each tradition learns about other traditions gaining fresh insights into their own tradition.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:02 am

shivaathervedi wrote: You did not address my question, in which Imam's time ,majalis of life, F, N, AND TOP MAJLIS started?

This information and dicussion is not for a public forum like this one. If you were a member you would know about such matters via Farmans read out in the respective majalis.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:57 pm

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Till today majority of Central Asian Ismailis and Arab Ismailis do not know about Veds and stories mentioned in that literature.
Today there is no excuse not to know. Knowledge is becoming increasingly available.

That is the strength of diversity. Each tradition learns about other traditions gaining fresh insights into their own tradition.

In many areas of Central Asia there is no electricity, hence no luxury of internet. Majority do not know English, neither there are good libraries.
The question is about doctrines and not traditions. Ismaili doctrines are uniform.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:04 pm

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote: You did not address my question, in which Imam's time ,majalis of life, F, N, AND TOP MAJLIS started?
This information and dicussion is not for a public forum like this one. If you were a member you would know about such matters via Farmans read out in the respective majalis.

I have asked a general question, don't think there is any secrecy. I am not questioning about Farman. The question is in which Imam's times these majalis started? It is like a question, when prince Rahim or prince hussain was born.
Why so secrecy,' touch me not Bashira'!!

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:38 pm

shivaathervedi wrote: I have asked a general question, don't think there is any secrecy. I am not questioning about Farman. The question is in which Imam's times these majalis started? It is like a question, when prince Rahim or prince hussain was born.
Why so secrecy,' touch me not Bashira'!!

As I said the Farmans indicate that majalis or gatherings of the same purpose have existed since time immemorial. They were called by different names.

Post by **Admin** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:38 am

Mijlas Farmans should not be discussed in this Forum.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:24 pm

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote: I have asked a general question, don't think there is any secrecy. I am not questioning about Farman. The question is in which Imam's times these majalis started? It is like a question, when prince Rahim or prince hussain was born.
Why so secrecy,' touch me not Bashira'!!
As I said the Farmans indicate that majalis or gatherings of the same purpose have existed since time immemorial. They were called by different names.

In religious circles satsung, religious forums, religious gatherings did existed but my question is simple, let us take in this way if you shy to answer;
Which Imam gave the names of majalis like life, F, N and I know top majlis is nameless. When purpose is same then why they have different names with different aims? Should be one majlis, with one name, with one purpose, on same time.

Post by **Admin** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:40 pm

All Mijlases have different purpose. Please ask Imam for guidance in this matter if you do not understand.

This subject is not appropriate for discussion in public Forum. What is private should remain private. If one day you become Ismaili, you will have access to these mijlases and will get your answers from listening to the Farmans.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:13 pm

Imam = Essence

Muhammad = Universal Intellect/Allah

Adam = Universal Soul

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:28 pm

Why is Adam different than Muhammad?

Post by **Admin** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:32 pm

There are the terrestrial Adam and there is the Adam in the Spiritual World, the third in the 10 Intellect theories developed by some Ismaili Dais.

I would assume that the Spiritual Adam is the one referred above. Not the Prophet Adam (father of Shish, Abel , Caen)

aatimaram1 · Post by **aatimaram1** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:05 pm

ismaili103 wrote:Imam = Essence

Muhammad = Universal Intellect/Allah

Adam = Universal Soul

The Ismaili philosophy developed in Fatimid era mentions Ali as Universal Soul. Pirs have mentioned this as Jeevo nu dataar in Ginans.

aatimaram1 · Post by **aatimaram1** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:18 pm

kmaherali wrote:Why is Adam different than Muhammad?

Noor e Muhammadi is higher in status than Adam. It is recorded in many Shia traditions, when Adam and Eve became disobedient to God they repented by invoking names of Muhammad, Ali, Fatima, Hasan, Hussain and God forgave them in the name of Holy Five. Ismailis follow the same tradition and ask forgiveness of Allah by invoking names of Ahl e Bait in the 6th part of Du'a.

Nuseri1 · Post by **Nuseri1** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:29 pm

Ya Ali Madad:
I assume this the 10th avatar ( login id ).of a frustrated non Ismaili blogger totally unblessed wth Sufi/ batting perception of our faith
HATS OFF TO ADMIN FOR MODERATING & HAVING FANTASTIC SITE.

aatimaram1 · Post by **aatimaram1** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:37 pm

Allah
Kalima e Kun
Universal Intellect
Universal Soul
Matter

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:02 am

kmaherali wrote:Why is Adam different than Muhammad?

There are the terrestrial Adam and there is the Adam in the Spiritual World, the third in the 10 Intellect theories developed by some Ismaili Dais.

I would assume that the Spiritual Adam is the one referred above. Not the Prophet Adam (father of Shish, Abel , Caen)

Yes Admin, That's what I was reffering to.

Adam/Mahesh is Universal Soul who is the creator of all souls in the Universes.

On the other hand, Divine Command/Universal Intellect/Allah/Muhammad/Muhammadan Reality/Noor E Muhammadi all are same.

Aad Thaki Ek Sun Nipaya taare Sun Maanthi Shabd Nipaya.

Imam is Essence who is beyond Divine Command, Imam is KHAT NIRINJAN & KHAT DARSHAN both.

aatimaram1 · Post by **aatimaram1** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:30 pm

one terrestrial Adam, one spiritual Adam and one human being as Adam.

Noor e Muhammadi and Noor e Ali is same.

AMEY ALI ANEY NABI NA NOOR CHHAIYE(N)E.
MSMH.