Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Discussion on doctrinal issues
kmaherali
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by kmaherali »

swamidada786 wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 10:46 pm Swami: Please name the books.
There is no book written on it so far. I may write one! However anyone who has studied the Ginans will find appropriate Ginanic terms mentioned in Dua. There a book on Quran and Ginans by Alwaez Kamaluddin which highlights the common and shared concepts.
-------
swamidada786 wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 10:46 pm Swami: But still the frame work of Preamble was explained to jamaits by seasoned missionaries!!
As I said, I did not hear it!
swamidada786 wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 10:46 pm Swami: Yes Dua is means of communication, but still some main fundamental terms are missing in Dua.
And therefore Dua cannot be used to understand our faith as you stated earlier
swamidada786
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

kmaherali wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 10:53 am
swamidada786 wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 10:17 pm
Shariat is first step to achieve final goal.

PAHLI MANO SHARIAT, TARIQAT AUR HAQIQAT
MA'ARAFAT KO MON MEIN MAAR
Becoming a murid, there is an underlying aspiration for Marifat stage. A murid does not remain at a Shariati level as you have implied by stating that they are kindergartens.
Dua, Dasond, Majalis, Eid Namaz, Janaza Namaz, Ziarat, Nikah are Shariati practices. Stop practicing these and jump directly into ocean of Ma'rifat, save time. Religious Kindergartens start at lower level that is Shariat.
swamidada786
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

kmaherali wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 11:01 am
swamidada786 wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 10:21 pm "In 1964 during the visit of Imam in Pakistan, he summond a meeting of all presidents of Ismailia Associations.
In that meeting the president of Tanganika Association Rai Shamsuddin Tejpar asked Hazar Imam about ALI ALLAH AND ALIYULLA.
Hazar Imam said; Farman on that was very clear from my Grand Father. It was not Ali Allah but it was Aliyullah. which has different meaning, which means Ali is from Allah. Donn't confuse it, this means Spirit of Ali and the Noor of Ali is from Allah....
Also in 1950, Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah himself changed the wordings in Dua from ALI ALLAH to ALIYULLAH.
"And I wish it to be clear therefore that in Tariqah matters, I am aware and there will be no change in the essence of our faith. But there will be nonetheless a search to enable the Murids to come together in an ever wider Jamat practising their faith together even if they don't speak the same language. There will be an attempt to take account of the pressures of modern life. There will be an attempt to make sure that traditions are understood within the Jamat and outside and that they do not give offence." (Dar es Salaam, Oct 6th, 1988)

Stating explicitly that Ali is Allah can give offence to those outside who are trying to understand out faith. About 2 centuries ago our Jamat was not widely known. Today with the growth of our institutions, our Tariqah is widely known and hence concepts such as Ali is Allah can give offence to others. However, as the Imam has stated the essence will not change.
I clearly quoted the reference: "In 1964 during the visit of Imam in Pakistan, he summond a meeting of all presidents of Ismailia Associations.
In that meeting the president of Tanganika Association Rai Shamsuddin Tejpar asked Hazar Imam about ALI ALLAH AND ALIYULLA.
Hazar Imam said; Farman on that was very clear from my Grand Father. It was not Ali Allah but it was Aliyullah. which has different meaning, which means Ali is from Allah. Donn't confuse it, this means Spirit of Ali and the Noor of Ali is from Allah....
Some one accept it or not, it is upto him/her.
swamidada786
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

kmaherali wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 11:18 am
swamidada786 wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 10:46 pm Swami: Please name the books.
There is no book written on it so far. I may write one! However anyone who has studied the Ginans will find appropriate Ginanic terms mentioned in Dua. There a book on Quran and Ginans by Alwaez Kamaluddin which highlights the common and shared concepts.
-------
You admitted there is no such book written so far. You have deep knowledge of religion, I encourage you to pen such book. I have books written by Alwaiz Kamal and Alwiza Zarina. Let me give a reference from his book 'Ismaili Tariqa' page 16/17;
" The Preamble of the constitution is like an ideological statement in which fundamental beliefs of the Ismaili
community have been articulated in simple language. It deals with the matters like ideological and historical bases of notion of Imamat.....

In Dua words like Pir, Piratan, names of Pirs, Ginan, Satpunth are not used.
kmaherali
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by kmaherali »

swamidada786 wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 8:57 pm Religious Kindergartens start at lower level that is Shariat.
However they don't remain there forever! They rise to marifati level. That is the difference between and exoteric tradition and an esoteric tradition.
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by kmaherali »

swamidada786 wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 9:35 pm In Dua words like Pir, Piratan, names of Pirs, Ginan, Satpunth are not used.
As we stated earler Dua does not contain all our concepts.
kmaherali
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by kmaherali »

swamidada786 wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 9:03 pm I clearly quoted the reference:
I clearly stated why such a statement was made not to give offence to others.If Ali's noor or spirit is from Allah, aren't we all from Allah as well? So what is the difference between us and Ali? Why mention it at all in Dua?
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

kmaherali wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 8:14 am
swamidada786 wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 9:03 pm I clearly quoted the reference:
I clearly stated why such a statement was made not to give offence to others.If Ali's noor or spirit is from Allah, aren't we all from Allah as well? So what is the difference between us and Ali? Why mention it at all in Dua?
Missionary Abu Ali wrote in his book, I quote,"The Imam is HUJJATTULLAH and the KHALIFATULLAH, the VICEREGENT"
Name of book "Ismaili Tariqa, page # 132.
All humans cann't be called Hujjatullah only chosen one (Swami).
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

kmaherali wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 8:06 am
swamidada786 wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 9:35 pm In Dua words like Pir, Piratan, names of Pirs, Ginan, Satpunth are not used.
As we stated earler Dua does not contain all our concepts.
But it do contain concepts of Tawid, Risalat, Imamat which are basic concepts.
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

kmaherali wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 8:02 am
swamidada786 wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 8:57 pm Religious Kindergartens start at lower level that is Shariat.
However they don't remain there forever! They rise to marifati level. That is the difference between and exoteric tradition and an esoteric tradition.
So you admitted first stage is Shariat, then Tariqat, Haqiqat, Ma'rafat. Reaching final stage is very very difficult. MSMS said in one of his Farmans " KETLAAK HAJAAR WARRAS THAI GAYA TEMA KETTLA MAN(N)SO TE MUQSAD NE POHUNCHIYA...".
kmaherali
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by kmaherali »

swamidada786 wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 9:45 pm All humans cann't be called Hujjatullah only chosen one (Swami).
Hence the Imam said Ali is from Allah not to give offence to others! Otherwise Qur'an links Hujja to Manifest Light. Holy Qur’an (4:174):

O mankind! Verily there hath come to you a Convincing Proof (Hujja) from your Lord: For we have sent unto you a Manifest Light (Nurun Mubeen).
kmaherali
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by kmaherali »

swamidada786 wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 9:48 pm But it do contain concepts of Tawid, Risalat, Imamat which are basic concepts.
As we said earlier, the essential purpose of Dua is communication between a murid and the Imam. It contains some essential concepts to remind us of our identity. It is not necessary for it to contain everything about our faith.
kmaherali
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by kmaherali »

swamidada786 wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 9:59 pm Reaching final stage is very very difficult. MSMS said in one of his Farmans " KETLAAK HAJAAR WARRAS THAI GAYA TEMA KETTLA MAN(N)SO TE MUQSAD NE POHUNCHIYA...".
It is difficult, nevertheless a few souls have attained it. Hence all murids are not at shariati level!
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

kmaherali wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 10:18 pm
swamidada786 wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 9:45 pm All humans cann't be called Hujjatullah only chosen one (Swami).
Hence the Imam said Ali is from Allah not to give offence to others! Otherwise Qur'an links Hujja to Manifest Light. Holy Qur’an (4:174):

O mankind! Verily there hath come to you a Convincing Proof (Hujja) from your Lord: For we have sent unto you a Manifest Light (Nurun Mubeen).
Satya is Satya, Truth is Truth, why to scare!! That's why I quoted following Hidayat of Shah Karim," Hazar Imam said; Farman on that was very clear from my Grand Father. It was not Ali Allah but it was Aliyullah. which has different meaning, which means Ali is from Allah. Donn't confuse it, this means Spirit of Ali and the Noor of Ali is from Allah....
Now according to ayat of Quran you quoted says, Hujjat has come from Allah to mankind and manifest light has been sent to you. Now compare saying of Quran and explanation by Hazar Imam, it is clear notion that is 'Ali is from Allah'.
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

kmaherali wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 10:26 pm
swamidada786 wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 9:59 pm Reaching final stage is very very difficult. MSMS said in one of his Farmans " KETLAAK HAJAAR WARRAS THAI GAYA TEMA KETTLA MAN(N)SO TE MUQSAD NE POHUNCHIYA...".
It is difficult, nevertheless a few souls have attained it. Hence all murids are not at shariati level!
You wrote; Hence all murids are not at shariati level!
So you are admitting not even at Shariati level but below that level, hence therefore I called them kindergartens.
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by kmaherali »

swamidada786 wrote: Mon Sep 22, 2025 9:19 pm Now according to ayat of Quran you quoted says, Hujjat has come from Allah to mankind and manifest light has been sent to you. Now compare saying of Quran and explanation by Hazar Imam, it is clear notion that is 'Ali is from Allah'.
Let us agree to disagree and leave it at that
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by kmaherali »

swamidada786 wrote: Mon Sep 22, 2025 9:23 pm So you are admitting not even at Shariati level but below that level, hence therefore I called them kindergartens.
Not all of them. Our Tariqah is a way from Shariati to Haqiqat/Marifat. There will always be murids on the way although they may not reach the destination.
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

kmaherali wrote: Mon Sep 22, 2025 9:55 pm
swamidada786 wrote: Mon Sep 22, 2025 9:19 pm Now according to ayat of Quran you quoted says, Hujjat has come from Allah to mankind and manifest light has been sent to you. Now compare saying of Quran and explanation by Hazar Imam, it is clear notion that is 'Ali is from Allah'.
Let us agree to disagree and leave it at that
WOH BAAT JISEY ANJAAM TALK LANA NA HO MUMKIN
USSEY EK KHUBSURAT MORR DEY KAR CHHORNA ACHA
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by mahebubchatur »

A declaration ( Farman) conveyed by Imam Ali Shah (Aga Khan II), in Bombay in 1881 upon being designated - Nass - as the next continuum of the ever present and manifest Imam of the time.

This reveals both his divine & spiritual authority and his deep compassion & love for all believers who have given allegiance to Him.

Addressing the jamats of India, Sindh, Punjab, Zanzibar, and beyond, the Imam forgave the sins of all his murids, affirming his position as the Sardar ( Leader Lord) , Imam, and Khudawand — the spiritual and temporal Guide of their faith and worldly life. He cautioned against blindly following mullāhs or external religious Leaders & authorities, urging them instead to seek understanding directly from His Farmans — either in Jamatkhana or personally at his bungalow — emphasizing that he himself was the source of divine knowledge and guidance.

In this declaration, Imam Ali Shah conveyed Allah’s will - profound theological truths central to Ismaili belief: that the Imam is the manifestation of the Divine Light (Nur) — the Awal (Beginning) and Akhir (End) — and that the spiritual essence of figures such as Imam Husayn, Jesus, and Moses is one and the same in him.

He described obedience, dasond, and attendance at Jamatkhana as marks of true faith, through which the Imam takes upon himself the sins of the believers meaning forgives them.

With great tenderness, he warned his followers not to lose their faith for the fleeting pleasures of the world, reminding them that he will personally guide the devoted to paradise.

Declaring that “Ya Ali is the Lord of the worlds”, he concluded with blessings of Khanavadan — symbolizing spiritual and material blessings of happiness for all his murids — and reaffirmed that all creation exists within the Noor of Imam, who is with and guides his followers in this world and the next.
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Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by mahebubchatur »

A declaration ( Farman) conveyed by Imam Ali Shah (Aga Khan II), in Bombay in 1881 upon being designated - Nass - as the next continuum of the ever present and manifest Imam of the time.

This reveals both his divine & spiritual authority and his deep compassion & love for all believers who have given allegiance to Him.

Addressing the jamats of India, Sindh, Punjab, Zanzibar, and beyond, the Imam forgave the sins of all his murids, affirming his position as the Sardar ( Leader Lord) , Imam, and Khudawand — the spiritual and temporal Guide of their faith and worldly life. He cautioned against blindly following mullāhs or external religious Leaders & authorities, urging them instead to seek understanding directly from His Farmans — either in Jamatkhana or personally at his bungalow — emphasizing that he himself was the source of divine knowledge and guidance.

In this declaration, Imam Ali Shah conveyed Allah’s will - profound theological truths central to Ismaili belief: that the Imam is the manifestation of the Divine Light (Nur) — the Awal (Beginning) and Akhir (End) — and that the spiritual essence of figures such as Imam Husayn, Jesus, and Moses is one and the same in him.

He described obedience, dasond, and attendance at Jamatkhana as marks of true faith, through which the Imam takes upon himself the sins of the believers meaning forgives them.

With great tenderness, he warned his followers not to lose their faith for the fleeting pleasures of the world, reminding them that he will personally guide the devoted to paradise.

Declaring that “Ya Ali is the Lord of the worlds”, he concluded with blessings of Khanavadan — symbolizing spiritual and material blessings of happiness for all his murids — and reaffirmed that all creation exists within the Noor of Imam, who is with and guides his followers in this world and the next.

Declaration -Farman

Nargis Mawjee 'From Aga Khan I to Aga Khan II: The legacy of two visionary Imams" Volume 34 English
Page 12 of 16
Grand Declaration made by
Imam Ali Shah
when He came on the throne of Imâmat in Bombay 1881
The following Grand Declaration was made by Imam Ali Shah when He came on the Throne of Imâmat in Bombay 1881. It is recorded in several manuscripts in Gújarâti dated Bombay 1881 & 1884, and they are still in manuscript form. Some passages have been selected, combined, and adapted from Gujarâti.
Imam Ali Shah declared:
"Mumbai jamât, Kathiawar jamât, the jamât of Halar, Suratjamât, the jamât of Cutchh, Sind and Punjab and Zanzibar et cetera, I am forgiving the sins of the jamäts of all countries.
(Original: sawẻ desh dèshâwami jamáto-nâ gûnáh Ame mãf
kariye tchiye.)
"O jamâts!
I am the Sardâr (Leader), Imam and
Khüdawand of your Din and Dúniya.
There are some
of you who go to Karbala. What is the benefit of it?
I am asking these people: does Imam Husayn give you mûlâqât there? If you meet Imam Husayn there, let Me know, then Me too I am prepared to accompany you. There are 20 people from the jamät who disobeyed our farmâns and went to Karbala where there were disputes and dissensions (fitnah) that resulted in the death of 4 Khojäs. People from other communities also lost their lives in those events...
"Whatever you want to ask, ask Me. I am ready to answer. If you are embarrassed to ask in Jamâtkhânâ, then come to My bungalow in Wadi; there / will answer you. Then in the akhrat (hereafter), do not say: "Imam had not told us anything."
"If you disobey Us and listen to mûllâhs, who will hold your hand in the hereafter? Be convinced that I Myself am the Beginning (Awal) and I Myself am the End (Akhar). There is only Me in the Din and the Dúniy. Wherever your look, I am there. I am Imam Husayn and I am also Jesus and Moses...
"The true believer is the one who correctly gives the dasond-malèwâjibât and who comes
to the
jamâtkhâna. By coming to the jamâtkhânâ, I take the sins on Me and the sawäb (benefit) belongs to you...
"Why do you want to spoil your "din" in a world that lasts only 4 days? (ie. in a such a short life) You will not be able to tolerate the flames of hell. Why am I telling you all this? Because My heart will not bear to see you burning in hell. Those who are enemies of our religion will burn in hell. And those who are devoted to Us, to them I will hold their hands and lead them to paradise...
"Do not be possessive in this world. Rich and poor, all must die. So why waste your faith? Many forget God, and that is not good. The path ahead is very difficult. So protect your faith as Nûsayri, Gulam Cumbar, Malik Ashtar, and Salmân Farsi (murids & close collaborators & daïs of Hazrat Ali, 7th c. AD) did. Do not be blind like the mûllähs...
"O believers, the unbelievers said to Nûsayri, You have become a kâfir (infidel).' So what! What did Núsayri lose? It was they who lost face... (See also farmân page 10 for Núsayri)
"To give death, to give life, to give roji, all of these are in the hands of Ya Ali.
Make rain, reach the
destination, put in Heaven or Hell, all of these are in the hands of Ya Ali. Only true believers perceive miracles... Why do We make such clear farmâns?
Because you have come into Our Presence...
O jamât, whatever exists is within Us. You will remain Ours in this world and the next. We will accompany you till the origin. Moses, Jesus and others used to proclaim their love for Us, be like them... but since you recognize Ali, We are telling openly that Ya Ali is the True Lord of the worlds. We are telling in plain words, whatsoever is, is Ya Ali. The Lord of the worlds is Ya Ali and He is here seated in front of you.
Khânâvadân. Khânâvadân."
Imam Ali Shah
His Highness The Aga Khan II
Imâmat: 1881 -1885
(Source: Selected and combined extracts of farmans made by Imam Ali
Shah, dated Bombay 1881,1884.
Manuscripts unpublished, no pagination.
Free adaptation from Gujarati by Nargis Mawjee.)
mahebubchatur
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Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by mahebubchatur »

Why do Ismailis pray to the Imams? Why do so many Muslims regularly call out to the Prophet and Saints for help? Is this prayer permissible in Islam or is it idol worship?

In this new article I explain how Sunni and Shii Muslim thinkers understand and justify this mainstream Muslim practice known as Istighatha through the Quran, Hadith and Islamic metaphysics.

“This chapter has endeavored to elucidate the practice of intercessory prayer known as istighātha in Islamic thought and practice. Istighātha is a type of intercessory prayer in which Muslims pray to or address a call for help to an
intermediary figure such as the Prophet Muhammad, the Shiʿi Imams, or the Sufi Saints. Today, due to the pervasive influence of Taymiyyan and Wahhabi-
Salafi theology, there is a widespread impression among Muslims and non- Muslims alike that calling upon the Prophet or Saints for help amounts to shirk (associating partners with God). This chapter first demonstrated that
istighātha was widely popular in pre-modern and contemporary Muslim society in the form of shrine visitation and popular devotional practices. Sec-
ondly, we argued that the practice of istighātha received widespread theolog-ical and legal approval among both Sunni and Shiʿi Muslim scholars. In other
words, istighātha is a mainstream Muslim practice that the majority of Sun-nis and Shiʿa approved of. Third, we surveyed some of the scriptural references
that Muslim scholars in the Sunni tradition used to argue for the legitimacy of istighātha. These include numerous Quranic verses and reports from the Sunni
ḥadīth corpus in which individuals seek the Prophet’s prayers, blessings, and intercession. Finally, the last section illustrated a metaphysical rationale for
107 Buehler, Arthur F., Sufi heirs of the Prophet: The Indian Naqshbandiyya and the rise of the
mediating shaykh, Albany: suny Press, 1998, 41. For the primary source, see Mīr Khūrd, Muḥammad b. Mubārak, Siyar al-awliyāʾ, Lahore: al-Kitāb Sūfī Foundation, 1978, 337. “yā muḥammad, yā ʿalī” 695
intercessory prayer based on the Islamic Neoplatonic metaphysics upheld in the Avicennian, Ismaʿili, Akbari, and Sadrian intellectual traditions. From this
metaphysical perspective, God is timelessly eternal and immutable; the act of petitionary prayer does not change God or cause Him to bestow more bless-
ings upon a creature. Rather, God eternally and continuously emanates His blessings upon all creatures at every moment through His single creative act
known as the Command of God or the Muhammadan Reality. Every created being receives a share of God’s blessings based on its own spiritual capac-
ity to receive them. Prayer and supplication are meant to help a human soul increase its receptivity to what God is always bestowing upon it. However, in addition to supplicating God directly, it is beneficial for a Muslim to seek God’s blessings from those perfected human souls who are already at the high-est level of spiritual receptivity—the Prophets, the Imams, and the Friends of
God. Their souls, which are constantly receiving an influx of blessings from God, can transmit His blessing and succor to less perfect souls by extending
those divine blessings to them. This has the overall result of helping the suppli- cant’s soul become more receptive to God and resolving his or her immediate
difficulties. Overall, there is a strong historical, scriptural, and metaphysical basis in Islamic thought for the popular practice of istighātha or intercessory
prayer. Far from negating the concept of tawḥīd, prayers like Yā Muḥammad or Yā ʿAlī express the deeper metaphysical truth that all created entities and
all creaturely help manifested throughout the Cosmos are radically dependent upon God, Who is sole independent Reality and self-sufficient Originator of all help. To recognize God’s transcendent unity and the manifestation of His eternal action through various intermediaries, the highest being the Muhammadan Reality reflected in the Perfect Human, amounts to a more complete expression of tawḥīd, as al-Qūnawī taught: “God’s influence and His life-giving succour (madad) flow through the Perfect Man and, by virtue of his manifestation therein, into all stations, presences, worlds and spiritual states.”108 Yā ʿAlī madad.
by Dr K Andhani

Full piece https://drive.google.com/file/d/10FD7is ... p=drivesdk
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

mahebubchatur wrote: Sun Oct 19, 2025 2:42 pm A declaration ( Farman) conveyed by Imam Ali Shah (Aga Khan II), in Bombay in 1881 upon being designated - Nass - as the next continuum of the ever present and manifest Imam of the time.
His Highness The Aga Khan II
Imâmat: 1881 -1885
(Source: Selected and combined extracts of farmans made by Imam Ali
Shah, dated Bombay 1881,1884.
Manuscripts unpublished, no pagination.
Free adaptation from Gujarati by Nargis Mawjee.)
Selected extracts, manuscripts unpublished, no pagination, free adoptation!! What kind of scholaship is this?
Now one can understand why Imam restricted publication of Farmans by individuals in community.
swamidada786
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

mahebubchatur wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 1:51 pm Why do Ismailis pray to the Imams? Why do so many Muslims regularly call out to the Prophet and Saints for help? Is this prayer permissible in Islam or is it idol worship?

“This chapter has endeavored to elucidate the practice of intercessory prayer known as istighātha in Islamic thought and practice. Istighātha is a type of intercessory prayer in which Muslims pray to or address a call for help to an intermediary figure such as the Prophet Muhammad, the Shiʿi Imams, or the Sufi Saints.
Chatur ji, your above two statements contradict each other. In the beginning you wrote,"Why do Ismailis pray to Imams", it sounds pray directly without wasilah, and in other paragraph you wrote," Istighatha is a type of intercessory prayer".

Quran says," Wabtaghu ilaihi wasilah", and in Dua part 6 Ismailis beseech Allah on behalf of Ahl Bait, Mowlana Ali and all Imams, and present Imam Shah Rahi Al Hussain. The words used in Dau are, ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI......
And in Surah Fateha we pray" IYYAKA NAIBUDU WA IYYAKA NASTAIEN". Therefore prayer is intercessory and it should be through Ahl Bait wa Imams.
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Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by Admin »

swamidada786 wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 7:53 pm Selected extracts, manuscripts unpublished, no pagination, free adoptation!! What kind of scholaship is this?
Now one can understand why Imam restricted publication of Farmans by individuals in community.
I understand that the content of this Farman does not please you nor does it align with your personal more or less Sunni Muslim beliefs, but after studying Khojki manuscripts for the last 40+ years, I can guarantee that these Farmans are accurate and valide according to many many manuscripts of that time.

Several Imam have issued a command to publish Farmans of Imam Aga Ali Shah and Aga Hassanali Shah and by not publishing those, it has been Nafarmani from those attending these well known meeting with the Imams, those who brushed off these instructions and choose not to publish them because they did not agree with the Imam and with what the Imam said to the Jamat in those historical Farmans. But just be patient, one day, they all will become available to the utmost dismay of all the shariatis who have infiltrated the Ismaili community..
Admin
swamidada786
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:56 pm

Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

Admin wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 8:47 pm
swamidada786 wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 7:53 pm Selected extracts, manuscripts unpublished, no pagination, free adoptation!! What kind of scholaship is this?
Now one can understand why Imam restricted publication of Farmans by individuals in community.
I understand that the content of this Farman does not please you nor does it align with your personal more or less Sunni Muslim beliefs, but after studying Khojki manuscripts for the last 40+ years, I can guarantee that these Farmans are accurate and valide according to many many manuscripts of that time.

Several Imam have issued a command to publish Farmans of Imam Aga Ali Shah and Aga Hassanali Shah and by not publishing those, it has been Nafarmani from those attending these well known meeting with the Imams, those who brushed off these instructions and choose not to publish them because they did not agree with the Imam and with what the Imam said to the Jamat in those historical Farmans. But just be patient, one day, they all will become available to the utmost dismay of all the shariatis who have infiltrated the Ismaili community..
Admin
PAHLI MAANO SHARIYAT......
You called me Sunni, no problem. Teachings of Prophet Muhammad is called Sunnah. Let me quote a Farman of Shah Rahim, he said," The values and principles of our Tariqah come from the Qur'an, from the teaching of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), and the Farmans of your Imams." (Paris July 13, 2025). Hazar Imam has used the words 'from the teachings of Prophet Muhammad' which is called Sunnah.

Instead of calling names, it is better to argue. my question is; Are the leaders so powerful that they neglected order of Imam(s), and the Imam did not fired them?

Other question, Why 49th Imam restricted publication of Farmans by ITREB or individuals? What are the reasons?

Why Shah Karim banned KIM and ordered those who have copies must deposit with ITREB?
swamidada786
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:56 pm

Re: Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

Post by swamidada786 »

mahebubchatur wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 2:51 pm
Why do Ismailis pray to the Imams? Why do so many Muslims regularly call out to the Prophet and Saints for help? Is this prayer permissible in Islam or is it idol worship?

“This chapter has endeavored to elucidate the practice of intercessory prayer known as istighātha in Islamic thought and practice. Istighātha is a type of intercessory prayer in which Muslims pray to or address a call for help to an intermediary figure such as the Prophet Muhammad, the Shiʿi Imams, or the Sufi Saints.

Swami's argument;
Chatur ji, your above two statements contradict each other. In the beginning you wrote,"Why do Ismailis pray to Imams", it sounds pray directly without wasilah, and in other paragraph you wrote," Istighatha is a type of intercessory prayer".

Quran says," Wabtaghu ilaihi wasilah", and in Dua part 6 Ismailis beseech Allah on behalf of Ahl Bait, Mowlana Ali and all Imams, and present Imam Shah Rahi Al Hussain. The words used in Dau are, ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI......
And in Surah Fateha we pray" IYYAKA NAIBUDU WA IYYAKA NASTAIEN". Therefore prayer is intercessory and it should be through Ahl Bait wa Imams.

Dear Admin: You did not contradict my argument with Chatur ji means I am right on my argument.
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