Authority & Nur (light), of Imam in Quran & Farmans

[kmaherali]

But there is no mention of word Naklanki in Hindu scriptures be Gita or Puranas.

TRANN TRANN VED NA DHEE-AAVO MUNEEVARBHAAI
BY SAYYED IMAAM SHAH

trann trann ved na dhee-aavo muneevar bhaai
kaayare khovo purav janam nee kamaai jee.....................1

Do not follow the teachings of the three (previous) scriptures
(which are redundant), o brother believers. By being timid, why
do you lose the good earnings of the past lives (which have
enabled you to attain this exalted path)?

ejee athar ved bole e prabhu saachaa
fal chhe paakaa(n) pann deese chhe kaachaa(n)jee............20

The stable scripture (the Ginans) is spoken by the True Guide.
The fruits are indeed ripe (sweet in essence) but are perceived as raw (bitter outwardly).

http://heritage.ismaili.net/node/23179

[ashraf59]

In the following Hindu Puranas, you can find the words Nakalanki / Nishkalanka:
• Bhāgavata Purāṇa
• Vishnu Purāṇa
• Kalki Purāṇa
They use terms like “Niṣkalanka,” meaning:
spotless, stainless, free from impurity.

It is true that the word Nakalanki does not appear in the Gita, but different words are used for the word Nakalanki with same meaning.

What people often connect is Gita 4.7–4.8, where Krishna says “He incarnates to restore dharma.” This is a general principle of avatāra. Since this is Kali Yuga, many may consider Him as the Kalki avatar.

[swamidada786]

But there is no mention of word Naklanki in Hindu scriptures be Gita or Puranas.

TRANN TRANN VED NA DHEE-AAVO MUNEEVARBHAAI
BY SAYYED IMAAM SHAH

trann trann ved na dhee-aavo muneevar bhaai
kaayare khovo purav janam nee kamaai jee.....................1

Do not follow the teachings of the three (previous) scriptures
(which are redundant), o brother believers. By being timid, why
do you lose the good earnings of the past lives (which have
enabled you to attain this exalted path)?

ejee athar ved bole e prabhu saachaa
fal chhe paakaa(n) pann deese chhe kaachaa(n)jee............20

The stable scripture (the Ginans) is spoken by the True Guide.
The fruits are indeed ripe (sweet in essence) but are perceived as raw (bitter outwardly).

http://heritage.ismaili.net/node/23179

I read the above 2 parts of Ginan you quoted written by Syed Imam Shah BUT could not find the name Naklanki.

[swamidada786]

In the following Hindu Puranas, you can find the words Nakalanki / Nishkalanka:
• Bhāgavata Purāṇa
• Vishnu Purāṇa
• Kalki Purāṇa
They use terms like “Niṣkalanka,” meaning:
spotless, stainless, free from impurity.

It is true that the word Nakalanki does not appear in the Gita, but different words are used for the word Nakalanki with same meaning.

What people often connect is Gita 4.7–4.8, where Krishna says “He incarnates to restore dharma.” This is a general principle of avatāra. Since this is Kali Yuga, many may consider Him as the Kalki avatar.

You wrote,"It is true that the word Nakalanki does not appear in the Gita, but different words are used for the word Nakalanki with same meaning". Sir ji, A can not be called X, Y, OR Z. The main Hindu scripture is Gita.
One has to wait 432000 years to see N or K coming. TIYAAR SUDHI VEERA BAI WAPRAI JASHE. At present look at the destruction of planet earth, bloodshed, hunger, cruelity name it, 'Might is right'. Bhagwan batta mai tujhe dhundhu kahan.

[kmaherali]

I read the above 2 parts of Ginan you quoted written by Syed Imam Shah BUT could not find the name Naklanki.

The verses convey the message that you don't follow the scriptures of the past but follow the scripture of the present which as per our Tariqah are the Ginans and Farmans. The verses I mentioned doesn't mentioned Naklanki but other Ginans do such as:

NAR NAKALA(N)K KEREE VAAT KOIK JAANNE RE
BY SAYYED FATEHALEE

ejee nar nakla(n)k keree vaat koik jaanne re
jene satgur meeleeyaa saar sohiy peechhaanne re..............1

Very few people understand the concept of the pure and spotless
Master (Imaam). Only those who have attained the True Guide
have recognised Him in His essence.

ejee satgur sat karee jaann mahamad rupejee
aad niri(n)jan saam sadaay alee rupejee......................2

Know with conviction that the True Guide is in the form of Prophet Muhammed.
The Everliving Lord who is undescriptible and unknowable from the beginning,
is indeed in the form of Alee.

ejee shaah betthaa paachhame desh ke ajamee rupejee
shaah bole chhe faarsee venn se(n)tar dipejee................3

The Lord (Imaam) is seated in a western country (in relation to
Indian Subcontinent) called Iran. The Imaam speaks the Persian
language which is spoken in the Arabian Peninsula.

[ashraf59]

If we’re setting aside the Bhagavad Gita because there’s no naklank word found in it; then what about the Ismaili ginans, granths and the other three Purāṇas I mentioned earlier? Are those also being considered illegitimate, or as now providing solid evidence for the term Naklanki?

And if they’re being dismissed as well, what’s the reason—especially when they all point toward the same idea or figure? about the Nakalanki!
For many the ginans, granths and purans are a legitimate source for better understanding the own religions and reincarnation of Vishnu.

[swamidada786]

I read the above 2 parts of Ginan you quoted written by Syed Imam Shah BUT could not find the name Naklanki.

The verses convey the message that you don't follow the scriptures of the past but follow the scripture of the present which as per our Tariqah are the Ginans and Farmans. The verses I mentioned doesn't mentioned Naklanki but other Ginans do such as:

NAR NAKALA(N)K KEREE VAAT KOIK JAANNE RE
BY SAYYED FATEHALEE

ejee nar nakla(n)k keree vaat koik jaanne re
jene satgur meeleeyaa saar sohiy peechhaanne re..............1

Very few people understand the concept of the pure and spotless
Master (Imaam). Only those who have attained the True Guide
have recognised Him in His essence.

ejee satgur sat karee jaann mahamad rupejee
aad niri(n)jan saam sadaay alee rupejee......................2

Know with conviction that the True Guide is in the form of Prophet Muhammed.
The Everliving Lord who is undescriptible and unknowable from the beginning,
is indeed in the form of Alee.

ejee shaah betthaa paachhame desh ke ajamee rupejee
shaah bole chhe faarsee venn se(n)tar dipejee................3

The Lord (Imaam) is seated in a western country (in relation to
Indian Subcontinent) called Iran. The Imaam speaks the Persian
language which is spoken in the Arabian Peninsula.

The Preamble
(A) The Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims affirm the shahadah la ilaha illa-llah, Muhammadur rasulu-llah, the Tawhid therein and that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.s.) is the last and final Prophet of Allah. Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind, and is universal and eternal. The Holy Prophet (s.a.s.) through the divine revelation from Allah prescribed rules governing spiritual and temporal matters.

Quran comes first to follow, it is the final message of Allah mentioned by Hazar Imam; Ginans came later. Ginans were primarily convertion tools using Hindu terminoloy where Kalki became Naklanki.

[kmaherali]

The Preamble
(A) The Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims affirm the shahadah la ilaha illa-llah, Muhammadur rasulu-llah, the Tawhid therein and that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.s.) is the last and final Prophet of Allah. Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind, and is universal and eternal. The Holy Prophet (s.a.s.) through the divine revelation from Allah prescribed rules governing spiritual and temporal matters.

Quran comes first to follow, it is the final message of Allah mentioned by Hazar Imam; Ginans came later. Ginans were primarily convertion tools using Hindu terminoloy where Kalki became Naklanki.

Preamble is for everyone including non-Ismailis , Farmans on the other hand are meant for the Jamats.

"Many times I have recommended to my spiritual children that they should remember the Ginans, that they should understand the meaning of these Ginans and that they should carry these meanings in their hearts. It is most important that my spiritual children from wherever they may come should, through the ages and from generation to generation, hold to this tradition which is so special, so unique and so important to my jamat." Karachi, 16.12.1964

[swamidada786]

If we’re setting aside the Bhagavad Gita because there’s no naklank word found in it; then what about the Ismaili ginans, granths and the other three Purāṇas I mentioned earlier? Are those also being considered illegitimate, or as now providing solid evidence for the term Naklanki?

And if they’re being dismissed as well, what’s the reason—especially when they all point toward the same idea or figure? about the Nakalanki!
For many the ginans, granths and purans are a legitimate source for better understanding the own religions and reincarnation of Vishnu.

In Hindu dharma Gita is important as Quran in Islam. You admitted that there is no Naklanki word available in Gita; and I admit there is no word Naklanki used in Quran. In Puranas Naklanki is not used directly. In my previous post I gave an example that alphabet 'A' can not be pronounced as 'Z'. Kalki ia an Avtar as well Naklanki is also an Avtar. One is yet to come, other is already here. Mission of both Avtars is same to defeat demons, restore peace, show the righteousness, make the planet paradise. Naklanki is around 1400 years, but we do not see peace on planet earth.
We pray dunya maan ASHANTI duur kari SHANTI paida kar; WHERE IS DEVI SHANTI?????

[swamidada786]

The Preamble
(A) The Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims affirm the shahadah la ilaha illa-llah, Muhammadur rasulu-llah, the Tawhid therein and that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.s.) is the last and final Prophet of Allah. Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind, and is universal and eternal. The Holy Prophet (s.a.s.) through the divine revelation from Allah prescribed rules governing spiritual and temporal matters.

Quran comes first to follow, it is the final message of Allah mentioned by Hazar Imam; Ginans came later. Ginans were primarily convertion tools using Hindu terminoloy where Kalki became Naklanki.

Preamble is for everyone including non-Ismailis , Farmans on the other hand are meant for the Jamats.

"Many times I have recommended to my spiritual children that they should remember the Ginans, that they should understand the meaning of these Ginans and that they should carry these meanings in their hearts. It is most important that my spiritual children from wherever they may come should, through the ages and from generation to generation, hold to this tradition which is so special, so unique and so important to my jamat." Karachi, 16.12.1964

For Ismailis Preamble is a Farman, and in 1986 was explained to all jamaits to follow.
The Farman you quoted was made in 1964, but in 1969 Ginan conference 'GINANS WERE CATEGORIZED' in a system of classification. Only selected Ginans were prescibed to recite in JKs with permission of Imam, others were banned to recite in JKs.
It is in same way as MSMS in 1945 conference was angry to change Ali Allah but in 1950 he changed it to ALIULLAH.

[kmaherali]

For Ismailis Preamble is a Farman, and in 1986 was explained to all jamaits to follow.
The Farman you quoted was made in 1964, but in 1969 Ginan conference 'GINANS WERE CATEGORIZED' in a system of classification. Only selected Ginans were prescibed to recite in JKs with permission of Imam, others were banned to recite in JKs.
It is in same way as MSMS in 1945 conference was angry to change Ali Allah but in 1950 he changed it to ALIULLAH.

In an esoteric tradition such as ours, there are always layers of meaning and understanding. There are zaheri aspects and the batini aspects. The Preamble represents the former whereas the Farmans /Ginans/Qasidas represent the latter.

[ashraf59]

. Naklanki is around 1400 years, but we do not see peace on planet earth.
We pray dunya maan ASHANTI duur kari SHANTI paida kar; WHERE IS DEVI SHANTI?????

Every event—whether good or bad—seems to unfold only when its time has truly arrived. For example, during the era of the Mahabharata, there were no missiles or fighter jets. Those technologies exist today because this is the age meant for them. In that earlier time, the weapons described were considered advanced for that era, but today’s technologies had not yet reached their destined moment.

This idea of timing becomes even more interesting when we look at spiritual history. Before the eighth avatar, Krishna, there were already seven avatars of Vishnu. Yet, during the times of those earlier avatars, the Mahabharata war did not occur. Not because circumstances were lacking—but because the time for that war had not yet arrived. That great conflict was destined to happen specifically during the time of Krishna, when conditions—moral, social, and cosmic—had aligned.

This makes me wonder: does history unfold by readiness rather than intention?
If so, then perhaps even major conflicts and transformations happen only when time itself allows them.

Many traditions also speak about a future age of harmony. The Puranas and the Ginans suggest that true peace on Earth will come—just not yet. Maybe, like past events, the time for it has not fully matured.

I’d also like to clarify something important: the word Naklanki appears in Hindu bhajans written by Hindu saints as well, not only in compositions by Ismaili pirs. This shared idea across traditions points toward a common hope and vision.

So the question I leave here is:
Are we waiting for peace to arrive with time, or is time waiting for humanity to be ready?
Off course waiting right time to come.

[kmaherali]

So the question I leave here is:
Are we waiting for peace to arrive with time, or is time waiting for humanity to be ready?
Off course waiting right time to come.

Ultimately peace and success is an internal matter. It does not depend on external circumstances. An elevated soul can be peaceful under any circumstances.

ejee neesee jal hoveto kuchh kaar na aave
peerune farmaayaa ba(n)daa sohee kamaave.. so allaah.........2

The one who is as pure as clean water will never be effected by time. It is by following the Farmans of the Imam that one achieves that state.

http://heritage.ismaili.net/node/22916

******
abdhu ghatt maa(n)he reedh seedh hay, ane ghatt maa(n)he anhad chaalaa;
ghatt maa(n)he bhaag lagaayaa baabu, ghattmaa(n)he see(n)chann
haaraa abdhu....................................................................................................................19

O slave! the real prosperity and success is in the heart,
and there are unlimited movements in the heart. In the heart is the garden of fortune,
brother, and in the heart is the waterer(of mercy).

abdhu ghattmaa(n)he navkha(n)d peerodhamee, ane ghattmaa(n)he hay kevalaasaa;
ghattmaa(n)he saat samuddhra kaa vaasaa, gur beenaa jaay peeyaasaa abdhu.........................20

kevalaas - one of the peaks of the Himalayas

O slave! in the heart is the expanse of the earth with nine continents, and in the heart
is one of the peaks of the Himalays(the entire creation encompassing the horizontal and
vertical limits is in the heart). The heart is the place of the seven seas(of mercy),
but without the Guide one goes thirsty(the Guide opens the doors to the seven oceans(heavens)).

http://heritage.ismaili.net/node/22813