Das Avatar - Das Awatar
Das Avatar - Das Awatar
Here is a nice summary of the concepts surrounding the Das Avatar:
Re: Das Avatar - Das Awtar
This is a chart from various documents from al-Waez Abualy. It is probably generated with the help of A.I. - The pages are not in order but I think it does not really matter as each one is complete.
About what is witten on page 15 about Adam being the Avatar after Bouddh Avatar, I had a discussion with Abualy missionary - and he said he was basing his interpretation on the genealogy in the Asal Dua which says Buddh ma thi Shish (Shish fom Buddh) -
We discussed that in fact Adam was prophet, not Imam and he was the son of Buddh Avatar therefore the Imamat of Budh Avatar went to Adam's son Shish and Adam was bypassed like it has happened between 48th and 49th Imam one generation was passed. He did concurred with me that it was a possibility.
As for the Das Avatar representing the Darwinian theory of evolution, we should not forget that Darwin's is but a theory which may change in the future with other progress of science but nevertheless, this is a very interesting approach which needs a vaste repertoire of knowledge.
I am generaly against the use of AI, particularly in generating fake Noorani Family photos but here whoever did this is a genius, this images represent in an easy to understand many of the concepts surrounding the Das Awatar. I will add a couple of articles which also deal with the subject from an Ismaili point of view.
About what is witten on page 15 about Adam being the Avatar after Bouddh Avatar, I had a discussion with Abualy missionary - and he said he was basing his interpretation on the genealogy in the Asal Dua which says Buddh ma thi Shish (Shish fom Buddh) -
We discussed that in fact Adam was prophet, not Imam and he was the son of Buddh Avatar therefore the Imamat of Budh Avatar went to Adam's son Shish and Adam was bypassed like it has happened between 48th and 49th Imam one generation was passed. He did concurred with me that it was a possibility.
As for the Das Avatar representing the Darwinian theory of evolution, we should not forget that Darwin's is but a theory which may change in the future with other progress of science but nevertheless, this is a very interesting approach which needs a vaste repertoire of knowledge.
I am generaly against the use of AI, particularly in generating fake Noorani Family photos but here whoever did this is a genius, this images represent in an easy to understand many of the concepts surrounding the Das Awatar. I will add a couple of articles which also deal with the subject from an Ismaili point of view.
Re: Das Avatar - Das Awatar
Very interesting effort by someone with these charts on the Das Avtars. Our Ginans and Granths are filled with references to these incarnations, and other religious traditions also have their own beliefs about divine manifestations.
If I am not mistaken, I also remember reading in one of your articles that Imam al-Hakim declared himself publicly as one of the ten incarnations.
Regarding your statement, “I think it does not really matter, as each one is completed,” I understand your point. Personally, I do not care much about the sequence. My question is simply from a historical perspective: how should such ancient theories of incarnation and chronology be understood in today’s scientifically advanced world?
At the same time, I personally accept the chart and congratulate the person who prepared it, as well as you for posting it here. My intention is not to put you down or reject the Ginanic literature, Rai Abu Ali’s waez, or his theory. I have great respect for all these sources. I am simply asking questions as a history seeker.
For example, Adam was a Prophet, not an Imam, and Shish (Seth) is traditionally described as Adam’s son. Does any tradition actually identify Gautama Buddha with Shish? If so, how does that fit historically, since Buddha is generally placed around the 5th century BCE, while Adam belongs to a much earlier traditional chronology?
I also wonder whether our Jamati religious boards or institutions officially support this interpretation, particularly when Ginans are regarded as an important means of communicating Ismaili teachings through Hindu religious concepts.
These are only my humble questions as a history seeker. I am not rejecting the Ginans or Rai Abu Ali’s teachings; I am simply trying to understand how Ginanic tradition, Ismaili theology, Hindu traditions, and historical chronology come together. Perhaps the original Ginan and Granth passages and Rai Abu Ali’s relevant waez would help clarify this further.
If I am not mistaken, I also remember reading in one of your articles that Imam al-Hakim declared himself publicly as one of the ten incarnations.
Regarding your statement, “I think it does not really matter, as each one is completed,” I understand your point. Personally, I do not care much about the sequence. My question is simply from a historical perspective: how should such ancient theories of incarnation and chronology be understood in today’s scientifically advanced world?
At the same time, I personally accept the chart and congratulate the person who prepared it, as well as you for posting it here. My intention is not to put you down or reject the Ginanic literature, Rai Abu Ali’s waez, or his theory. I have great respect for all these sources. I am simply asking questions as a history seeker.
For example, Adam was a Prophet, not an Imam, and Shish (Seth) is traditionally described as Adam’s son. Does any tradition actually identify Gautama Buddha with Shish? If so, how does that fit historically, since Buddha is generally placed around the 5th century BCE, while Adam belongs to a much earlier traditional chronology?
I also wonder whether our Jamati religious boards or institutions officially support this interpretation, particularly when Ginans are regarded as an important means of communicating Ismaili teachings through Hindu religious concepts.
These are only my humble questions as a history seeker. I am not rejecting the Ginans or Rai Abu Ali’s teachings; I am simply trying to understand how Ginanic tradition, Ismaili theology, Hindu traditions, and historical chronology come together. Perhaps the original Ginan and Granth passages and Rai Abu Ali’s relevant waez would help clarify this further.
Re: Das Avatar - Das Awatar
Gautama Boudha is not Buddh avatar. Different place, different era. Buddh Avatar father of Adam, grand father of Shish. Gautama was long time after Buddh Avatar.
We are all looking for Truth and what else to find certainety outside Farmans and Ginans?
Also I was talking on the orger of the images, not of the Avatar
We are all looking for Truth and what else to find certainety outside Farmans and Ginans?
Also I was talking on the orger of the images, not of the Avatar
Re: Das Avatar - Das Awatar
Notes on some newly discovered manuscripts of the Das Avatar of the Satpanthi NIzari Ismailis in the collection of the Heritage Society.
July 2022
LINK: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ge_Society
DOWNLOAD: https://www.academia.edu/82844924/Notes ... ge_Society
The Das Avatars of the Ismaili Satpanthis (“Ismailis”) is a sub-concept developed within the concept of the lineage of the continuous divine manifestation before and subsequent to the creation of the universe. There are also several Ismaili works composed under this name by various Pirs, the better known is that of Pir Sadardin and that of Syed Imamshah. The Das Avatars in Ismailism is quite different from the Das Avatar of the Vaishnavites (called “Hindus” henceforth) as discussed below. The Ismaili Das Avatar has been referenced in the Asal Gat Paat ji Dua, the prayer recited for centuries. However the importance of this work and the special reverence by Ismailis came to the attention of Westerners only from mid 19th century. Going through the catalogue of the newly opened Indic manuscripts section of the Heritage Society we came across two Das Avatar works which have not yet been referenced in any publications: The Das Avatar Vado (Moto) of Pir Shams and the tenth Dasmo Avatar from the Das Avatar Vado of Pir Hassan Kabirdin.
July 2022
LINK: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ge_Society
DOWNLOAD: https://www.academia.edu/82844924/Notes ... ge_Society
The Das Avatars of the Ismaili Satpanthis (“Ismailis”) is a sub-concept developed within the concept of the lineage of the continuous divine manifestation before and subsequent to the creation of the universe. There are also several Ismaili works composed under this name by various Pirs, the better known is that of Pir Sadardin and that of Syed Imamshah. The Das Avatars in Ismailism is quite different from the Das Avatar of the Vaishnavites (called “Hindus” henceforth) as discussed below. The Ismaili Das Avatar has been referenced in the Asal Gat Paat ji Dua, the prayer recited for centuries. However the importance of this work and the special reverence by Ismailis came to the attention of Westerners only from mid 19th century. Going through the catalogue of the newly opened Indic manuscripts section of the Heritage Society we came across two Das Avatar works which have not yet been referenced in any publications: The Das Avatar Vado (Moto) of Pir Shams and the tenth Dasmo Avatar from the Das Avatar Vado of Pir Hassan Kabirdin.