Das Avatar

agakhani1 · Post by **agakhani1** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:01 am

Yes, I read that book twice and many more other books on reincarnation specially a well known book 'Apprenticed to a Himalayan Master' written by a Muslim author name Mumtaj Ali ,"At the Feet of a Himalayan Master': written by Swami Rama and many more!! they all say deceased person can come back but in this modern time does it seems logical?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:17 pm

Swami Sri Yukteshwar gave a scientific explanation of how he came back. Was it not logical to you?

agakhani1 · Post by **agakhani1** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:31 pm

That specific explanation is true for few saints,sages and Siddha yogis like, Babaji, Yoganand, Telang Swami and Swami Yukteshwar but it is not possible for every one.
Swami Yukteshwar had some divine powers!( which Swami Yoganand has mentioned in his book "Autobiography of a Yogi", his soul was great and he had some god gifted abilities so, that he came back in that Hotel after his death. but for others it is not possible at all! I do not believe that King Prahalad or King Yudhisthir will come back with their 5 crore and 7 crores armies, it is just allegorical examples for better understanding and might be to show how big the army will be with our Imam at that time!!., may be...
I don't think that 33 crores devtas ( who had died thousand and thousand years ago) will come back in their own life again and will fight with daint kalinga!!!. Zahoorat will take place! Daint Kalinga will be killed I, agree with that but our Imam has to fight with living human being army not the dead and deceased human beings.period

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:51 am

agakhani wrote:That specific explanation is true for few saints,sages and Siddha yogis like, Babaji, Yoganand, Telang Swami and Swami Yukteshwar but it is not possible for every one.
Swami Yukteshwar had some divine powers!( which Swami Yoganand has mentioned in his book "Autobiography of a Yogi", his soul was great and he had some god gifted abilities so, that he came back in that Hotel after his death. but for others it is not possible at all! I do not believe that King Prahalad or King Yudhisthir will come back with their 5 crore and 7 crores armies, it is just allegorical examples for better understanding and might be to show how big the army will be with our Imam at that time!!., may be...
I don't think that 33 crores devtas ( who had died thousand and thousand years ago) will come back in their own life again and will fight with daint kalinga!!!. Zahoorat will take place! Daint Kalinga will be killed I, agree with that but our Imam has to fight with living human being army not the dead and deceased human beings.period

Agakhani bhai,

Four mukhis ( prahlad,, jujhister ) etc and 33 crore souls attain salvation or asal mukaam , they are got one with Imam..so I guess it means all of these personalities are Imam himself.

agakhani1 · Post by **agakhani1** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:55 am

Shinan, please e-mail me I have to say something in this regard. I deleted your e-mail accidentally.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:43 am

Does anyone have translation of Das avatar motto Which is written by Syed Imam Shah.

Ismaili.net has the translation of only Dasmo Avatar in the thesis work of Khakee,Gulshan and I want full translation of the Granth. If anyone have full translation, plz providing in here.

Post by **Admin** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:40 pm

There is a summary in late Al Waez Bandali Haji's Noorun Allah Noor.

Gulshan Khakee's thesis can become a basis with Bandali Haji's work for any person who feels competent to translate the whole work of Das Avatar in its variegated versions.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:45 am

Admin wrote:There is a summary in late Al Waez Bandali Haji's Noorun Allah Noor.

Gulshan Khakee's thesis can become a basis with Bandali Haji's work for any person who feels competent to translate the whole work of Das Avatar in its variegated versions.

I had already read Noor un Allah Noor, but I cannot agree with his explanation, according to late al waez there were human population on earth in each avatar, but according to my understanding dasavatar is theory of evolution of life on earth and concept of Imamat with each organism, thats why I'm looking for translation.

mahebubchatur · Post by **mahebubchatur** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:51 am

Das avtar-recitation with reverence & love... http://youtu.be/f_UOpxEA3PU

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:19 am

ismaili103 wrote: I had already read Noor un Allah Noor, but I cannot agree with his explanation, according to late al waez there were human population on earth in each avatar, but according to my understanding dasavatar is theory of evolution of life on earth and concept of Imamat with each organism, thats why I'm looking for translation.

The Das Avtaar is a narrative involving the worship and salvation of humans. Below are verses from Anant Akhado:

Aashaajee Sankhaa-sur to saaher pettho
toe na melyo tunhee jee
maaree daannav ved-j vaaryaa
rakheesar gher vadhaayun................Haree anant..405

Oh Lord Sankha-sur was in the depths of the ocean
even then you did not abandon his pursuit
Having slayed the demon the Lord recovered the vedas
entirely
and the homes of the devotees became happy and joyous
Haree You are eternal...

Aashaajee Bhagat Rukh-mugat taaryaa
evaa taaraa kaam jee
bhagat taaryaa aap ugaarya
maaryo te Sankha-sur....................Haree anant..406

Oh Lord You gave salvation to Bhagat(the pious) Rukh-mugat
such are your (exalted) deeds
You gave salvation to the pious momins and saved them
and you slayed the demon Sankha-sur..
Haree You are eternal...

Similarly you can access verses on other Avatars at:

http://www.ismaili.net/granths/part5.html

Verse 404 and onwards...

What you are thinking about is evolution of life and there was a witness for each phase of evolution. But this would entail many many Avatars and not only ten.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:39 am

What you are thinking about is evolution of life and there was a witness for each phase of evolution. But this would entail many many Avatars and not only ten.

Yes Karim bhai, evolution is before dasavatar because Pirs mentioned about jakh, meghs and kinar.

homes of the devotees

Devotees can be human, they can be a fish, they can be a lion and they can be bacterias. Pirs did not use the word Humans for devotees. Pir had also used the word like JAKHS ( Bacterias ) , MEGHS ( Birds) and KINNARS ( Amphibians) who achieved salvation.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:59 am

ismaili103 wrote:Devotees can be human, they can be a fish, they can be a lion and they can be bacterias. Pirs did not use the word Humans for devotees. Pir had also used the word like JAKHS ( Bacterias ) , MEGHS ( Birds) and KINNARS ( Amphibians) who achieved salvation.

Aashaajee Nar-sinh rupe daannav maaryaa
Bhagat Pahelaaj ugaaryaa jee
kartaa jug maanhe chaar avtaar-j keedhaa
keedhaa so Sree Naaraayann..............Haree anant..416

Oh Lord In the form of Nar-sinh, the Lord killed the demon
and saved pious Pahelaaj
The Lord was compelled to take four manifestations in
the Kartaa-jug
and He was Sri Naaraayann(the Lord)
Haree You are eternal...

Pahelaaj was definitely human and he was the saviour of 5 crores. Nar-sinh was non-human.

More...
Translation of Pahelaj Ni Mata e Kunvar
http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/31379

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:28 am

Pahelaaj was definitely human and he was the saviour of 5 crores. Nar-sinh was non-human.

Pir only wrote Pahelaaj, we did not know either pahelaaj was human or animal.

Did you know why army and kingdom of Shri Ram was monkeys and Homo Erectus including Hanuman ( he was also homo erectus ) , because Shri Ram was the first Human Being on earth or Shri Ram was first Homo Sapiens avatar. Late Alwaez abu ali wrote it in his article about Granth and Ginans.

agakhani1 · Post by **agakhani1** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:25 pm

I agree with Ismaili 103, PRHALAD, PEHLAJ as described in our ginans was not in human shape he was deer EJI PRAHLAD NI MANE ENE VAN MA JANAMYO, he was an animal and only animals can take birth in Van/jungle! According the evolution theory he should be animal but many historians and mythologists has shown him as human being! That is we still have to research about!
we have quiet bit discussions in this topics but many participant includin Kbhai didn't agree with, that is just fine every one has their own analyzatios.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:18 pm

agakhani wrote:I agree with Ismaili 103, PRHALAD, PEHLAJ as described in our ginans was not in human shape he was deer EJI PRAHLAD NI MANE ENE VAN MA JANAMYO, he was an animal and only animals can take birth in Van/jungle! According the evolution theory he should be animal but many historians and mythologists has shown him as human being! .

Abhai, if Pahelaaj was indeed non-human, why would Pir Sadardeen mention at all in the Ginan. Aren't all animals born in the jungle? What was so special about him being born in the jungle?

I think the reason for mentioning it was to demonstrate that Pahelaaj had a difficult childhood and he was under constant protection of God.

Also the Ginan mentions the devil meeting the astrologer who studied the scripture and read the stars. Do you think according to the evolutionary theory animals are capable of that?

In one private mehmani MSMS mentioned one very devoted murid as being like Pahelaaj. Do you think he meant he was a dear?

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:30 am

[quote]In one private mehmani MSMS mentioned one very devoted murid as being like Pahelaaj. Do you think he meant he was a dear?[quote]

Karim bhai, If Mowla was manifest as Lion in that time than why not Pahelaaj could be in Deers body, I dont know either he was Deer or any other animal, but His farher HARANAKANS name meaning is " destroyer of deer" HARAN means Deer And we all know that he wants to kill his son , so its possible that Phelaaj was Deer, I m just saying because the meaning of his fathers name who wants to kill him.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:09 pm

ismaili103 wrote:Karim bhai, If Mowla was manifest as Lion in that time than why not Pahelaaj could be in Deers body, I dont know either he was Deer or any other animal, but His farher HARANAKANS name meaning is " destroyer of deer" HARAN means Deer And we all know that he wants to kill his son , so its possible that Phelaaj was Deer, I m just saying because the meaning of his fathers name who wants to kill him.

As I said the Ginan mentions the existence of astologers who studied stars and scriptures. Do you think non-humans can do that according to the theory of evolution?

Machh Avatar destroyed the devil Sankh sur to recover the Vedas. Do you think it was for the non-humans?

agakhani1 · Post by **agakhani1** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:38 pm

Kbhai,
Buf we are talking that period when human beings was not present on earth! Then astrology, allegory, imaginations, aeronomy you think possible? If yes then what needs for that? When animals and other cratures has no mind to think?
Simple is this human beings were started during Narsing Avatar but that human being was not even mature either tbey was in shape of half animal and half human being, that imature humans became mature human being Iin lord Krishna"s time, during Rama avtar human was as not 100% human, may be he was mixed up half monkes and half human! take examples of HANUMAN he was half animals and half human!
about this evolution theory and its times Abu Ali has created a chart and its available in this forum.
The super human being has evolved during Bodha avatar and we are seeing that where human being has reached so far! this is not it but human evolution progress will not end soon, humans still have to go in another planets as our current imam and MSM has predicted many many years ago! that don't surprise that if your kids seep a tea in moon!

forgive spell mistakes.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:24 pm

agakhani wrote:Kbhai,
Buf we are talking that period when human beings was not present on earth! Then astrology, allegory, imaginations, aeronomy you think possible? If yes then what needs for that? When animals and other cratures has no mind to think?.

Abhai,
Peer Sadardeen in his Ginan is telling that Pahelaaj was a human being and not an animal. There were astrologers during that time which proves that it was NOT the period of animals.

Read Swami Yukteshwar's theory of yugas for further explanation. It was Satya Yuga, a period of highest mental development and not a primitive time of animals.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:11 am

Read Swami Yukteshwar's theory of yugas for further explanation. It was Satya Yuga, a period of highest mental development and not a primitive time of animals.

According to Pir, Satya jug or Karta jug was started for about 4 million years ago. According to some researchers in 20th century they found that first human on earth born for about 2 million years ago and that human was not human but a missing link. They research it for about 50 years ago but Pirs wrote about it for about 1000 years ago that first missing link human ( Vaman Avatar ) was born for about 2.2 million years ago.

What did you think swami's theory is better than Pirs theory ?

agakhani1 · Post by **agakhani1** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:12 am

We have discussions on Swami Yuteshwar"a theory and much more on when human evolvwd on earth in the thread name Who were Hussaini Brahmins? Read that specially the end.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:30 am

ismaili103 wrote: What did you think swami's theory is better than Pirs theory ?

According to the Ginan: Pahelaa Karta Jug Manhe Shahnaa http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22960, the Karta Yuga was most advanced symbolized by golden paat as opposed to kaljug (least advanced) symbolized by clay paat. The worship and thinking of Karta Yuga was far superior than that of the Kali Yuga. So the Swami's theory is not contradicting the Pir.

If the narrative of Das Avtar was intended to convey the evolutionary theory, then we would have mention of minerals and plants as well and there would be many many stages of evolution not simply ten.

The philosophy of Das Avtar is essentially the ability of the Divine to assume certain forms - human and non-human to fulfil a task or purpose. For example in the case of Machh Avtaar, the Divine (the Imam ) assumed the form of a fish to recover the vedas from the ocean. Once that task was complete, the Imam reverted to human form. It was only a short term temporary manifestation and not for generations to generations.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:34 am

If the narrative of Das Avtar was intended to convey the evolutionary theory, then we would have mention of minerals and plants as well and there would be many many stages of evolution not simply ten.

Late Alwaez Abu Ali has made an evolution chart in which he mentioned the evolution of minerals and plants in karta and treta jug.

the Divine (the Imam ) assumed the form of a fish to recover the vedas from the ocean

Pirs uses many examples to convey message, so do you actually believe that these four vedas which Imam Recover from shankhasur is actually the books. I guess Pir just give us example. And these four vedas meant that shankhasur take away believers and guidance from the earth.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:20 am

ismaili103 wrote:Late Alwaez Abu Ali has made an evolution chart in which he mentioned the evolution of minerals and plants in karta and treta jug..

But that was not part of the Das Avtar. That was Alwaez Abualy's interpretation.

ismaili103 wrote: Pirs uses many examples to convey message, so do you actually believe that these four vedas which Imam Recover from shankhasur is actually the books. I guess Pir just give us example. And these four vedas meant that shankhasur take away believers and guidance from the earth.

So what is the symbolism of the ocean, why under the ocean and not on the surface?

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:50 am

So what is the symbolism of the ocean, why under the ocean and not on the surface?

It can be refer as deepness Or darkness of the deep ocean which mean light of religion disappears and relgion vanishes day by day. the demon takes away guidance far away from the believers and then earth became no place for religion, I can be wrong.

agakhani1 · Post by **agakhani1** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:31 pm

Nobody can be a wrong to put his own thoughts! In this forums so, basically You are absolutely right in your own thinking! as long as you are not forces to believes every one that whatever you thinks is only right and whatever others thinking are totally wrong!
For a example as per Swami Yukteshwar"s theory (in his criticized book (The Holy science ) this a Karta yug while many including our great pirs wrote in their ginans that this is a last Kalyug but many peoples do not believes this! so let him that way and think and accept what our great ginans says about current yuga.
I some what agree with swami's calculations though!! but that calculation has been calculated in divine Years! Not in human years! If some one compares both calculations they will definitely agrees with what our pirs, what other religions literature says, what everybody says, what you and I says i.e. this is a KALYUG. period.
There is always ups and downs! there is always Acceding and descending, in evolution of earth and universe, it may happend in all yugas and it is possible that they may have lefts some good and bad things in yugas. In even Kali Yug we are still find some good peoples this is a good things lefts from previous yugas.......

About Swami Yukteshwar:-
He may be right in few things but many other things he is totally wrong!
One people can be wrong, two, three or may be thousand peoples can be wrong! But off course not all "Awaam" could be wrong and that is the bottom line, keep what you think, I also believe that's way and so many others too. You are not wrong, nobody can be wrong excepts few individuals who trays to imposes their wrong thinking

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:20 am

agakhani wrote:Nobody can be a wrong to put his own thoughts! In this forums so, basically You are absolutely right in your own thinkings! as long as you are not forces to belives every one that whatever you thinks is only right and whatever others thinkins are totally wrong!

Nobody is forcing his views on anybody. You can choose to think or believe whatever you want. We are only here to discuss issues. You are of course free to disagree...

agakhani wrote: For a example as per Swami Yukteshwar"s theory (im his criticised book (Holy science ) this a Karta yog while many including our great pirs wrote in their ginans that this is a last Kalyug but many peoples do not believes this!

Kal Jug means 'present era". When the Pirs wrote the Ginans, it was Kaliyuga, but since then, there has been an evolution and hence we are in the ascending Duapura Yuga.

Prince Sadruddin in one of his speeches http://ismaili.net/sadru/960926.html , said:

"Creation is sacred. Life and nature need not be exploited to instill fear in our hearts. For the Hindus, we have entered the Kali Yuga, the dark age, while St. John's Apocalypse evokes the divine judgement for human sins through his vision of the final destruction of the earth. Though there is cause for apocalyptic rhetoric in the chemical and radioactive pollution of soil and water and the depletion of the ozone layer, the problem with cyclical or terminal Apocalypses is that they deeply imprint the mind with negative and destructive behaviour patterns. One is escapism: "God will judge, but we are the faithful who will escape. And really this isn't our home, anyway, since heaven is our kingdom". There is an "us/them" dilemma here, with a judgement on the others. What we need to do is formulate a language that draws people back into community and responsibility. Apocalyptic visions point the other way."

He is saying that the belief about today being Kali Yuga the dark age is a Hindu belief and not Ismaili. To think of our time as being a dark age can imprint negative and destructive patterns in our thinking. It is not healthy to think that way.

On the other hand if we think of being in Duapura Yuga ascending towards Satya Yuga, it engenders a positive and optimistic outlook.

FreeLancer · Post by **FreeLancer** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:00 pm

Why DUS AVTAR? Why not 11 or 14 or 21 Avtars?

In Hindu Dharma it is said, "In Kul Yug there will be only one Avtar i.e NAKLANKI and then at end universe will be wrapped". But in Ismaili Dharma Imam is playing as Naklanki and there are so far 49th Avtars!!

Post by **Admin** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:29 pm

You are mistaken (as always).

I don't know what Hindu dharam says but I know Ismaili Dharam says Hazrat Ali is the Dasmo Avatar

There is only one Dasmo Avatar and it is Hazrat Ali. All subsequent Imams are the same Dasmo Awtar. Your problem is that you have never accepted the batini aspect of the Ismaili faith as it is so apparent in ALL your posting whatever the thread.

We Ismaili say in our prayers "Ya Ali, Hazar Imam" and we understand that Hazar Imam and Ya Ali is the same. If this is not clear to you or this is not how you pray in congregation if or when you go to JK, then I doubt you are part of the same faith as those who say Ya Ali Ya Hazar Imam.

FreeLancer · Post by **FreeLancer** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:02 pm

Admin wrote:You are mistaken (as always).

I don't know what Hindu dharam says but I know Ismaili Dharam says Hazrat Ali is the Dasmo Avatar

There is only one Dasmo Avatar and it is Hazrat Ali. All subsequent Imams are the same Dasmo Awtar. Your problem is that you have never accepted the batini aspect of the Ismaili faith as it is so apparent in ALL your posting whatever the thread.

We Ismaili say in our prayers "Ya Ali, Hazar Imam" and we understand that Hazar Imam and Ya Ali is the same. If this is not clear to you or this is not how you pray in congregation if or when you go to JK, then I doubt you are part of the same faith as those who say Ya Ali Ya Hazar Imam.

Why are you freaking with my question. Twice you deleted my posts. If you can't answer let others do. This is your narrow mindedness. Once again;
Why Dus Avtar and not 12, 13, or 21 Avtars. What is the mystery behind 10 Avtars.