NAMAZ

arzimood · Post by **arzimood** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:19 am

Ya Ali Madad to All!

Salat is an Arabic word. In Quran, the book of Allah, revealed on Prophet (PBUH) uses the very word of SALAT when discussing prayers offered. Dua is a modified form of Salat. Nor Quran itself neither the Prophet (PBUH) used the very word of Namaz. even the names of Namaz i.e. Faj Zohar Asr Magrib n Isha arent mentioned anywhere.. these are the names we chose for our convenience.

Dua is Salat, its simply that we're not using the word SALAT extensively n r acquainted with the word of DUA. Regarding wht SALAT is, a man once enquired from Imam Jaffer Sadiq (A.S.) n was advised that SALAT is a word (conversation) b/w creator and creation n its a DIALOGUE n not monologue tat half of it is Allah's words n other half is urs. Tats our of our 7 part Dua, 3.5 is of Allah n 3.5 ours. Lets see.. we begin dua with Surah Fatiha... its Allah's Word... after tat its our word... similayl all sentenses in our dua tat begin with ALLAHUMA are words offered by us. The man further asked Imam Jaffer (A.S.) as to if there are any specifications for SALAT, Imam (A.S.) said Salat is not complete till it includes Surah Fatiha. tat is Sura Fatiha is mandatory for Salat, therefore if u compare NAMAZ or DUA... we have SUrah Fatiha.

Further not for the sake of comparision but to understand our DUA, Namaz has 7 raqaats, each part of dua serves as a Rakat. We offer equal sajoods (sajdas) as a non-ismaili does in 5 times prayers.

n if we try to understand our Dua... its the most precious gift of Imam. We begin with Surah FAtiha(Um-ul-Quran=Mother of Quran) n show our faith in Allah, then in second part we recite the prerequisites (Allah, Prophet, Aima=Ulil Amr)of faithful n request for mercy etc., then we talk abt announcement made by Prophet for Aima n agree no ones brave bur Ali n its just is sword, then after this entire link we make a comitment of Submission in fourth part and then in fifth part after making the commitment we accept that we are not supposed to do Khayanat... n then we accept Allah is AHAD n seek his mercy through Panjtan Paak n Aima.

i dont intend to get into explanation but i found it imp to mention the significance of DUA in relevance with the question under reference.

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:44 pm

arzimood, you are wrong!!
It is very shameful that no one has corrected this yet.

arzimood wrote: Tats our of our 7 part Dua, 3.5 is of Allah n 3.5 ours.

DUA has 6 Parts to it.

arzimood wrote: Further not for the sake of comparision but to understand our DUA, Namaz has 7 raqaats, each part of dua serves as a Rakat.

Salaat a.k.a Namaz has 2 obligatory rakats (this is not the same for Salaat of Feasts or EID and Salaat offering or Namaaz of passing). However, the daily Salaat is offered with 4 rakats; the 3rd is in behalf of the Prophet (in Suni tradition and in Shia tradition it encompasses the entire family, Ah Al Bait) and the 4th is personal prayer.

arzimood · Post by **arzimood** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:04 am

7 was a typing mistake. I guess everyone here knows its 6 parts n so do i!! secondly... after all obligatory n those of sunnat at max there are 6 Rakats n we offer equal n ta too are obligatory. i guess ur post could have sounded cordial if it was posted to point out a typographical mistake.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:58 pm

arzimood wrote:7 was a typing mistake. I guess everyone here knows its 6 parts n so do i!! secondly... after all obligatory n those of sunnat at max there are 6 Rakats n we offer equal n ta too are obligatory. i guess ur post could have sounded cordial if it was posted to point out a typographical mistake.

I think you meant 7 suras of the quran versus parts?

there are 7 suras embedded in our dua, which i guess can equate to 7 rakats.

Shams

arzimood · Post by **arzimood** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:19 am

Thanks for understanding and not reacting to typographical mistakes. I meant the parts themselves... each part serves as a RAKAT. n this i heard from prominent n reliable alwa'az here in khi. tat is each part serves as a Rakaat. What all i was trying to make a point out of my post was tat Its Salaat as defined in Islam first form of Salaat was Namaz n dua is wht we offer as Sala'at today n i tried to highlight the resemblance between wht Prophet introduced n wht we offer today... the main things are still the same.

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:24 pm

arzimood wrote:tat is each part serves as a Rakaat. What all i was trying to make a point out of my post was tat Its Salaat as defined in Islam first form of Salaat was Namaz n dua is wht we offer as Sala'at today n i tried to highlight the resemblance between wht Prophet introduced n wht we offer today... the main things are still the same.

Point well taken, but still it is imperative that one must be diligent with their statements if one is going to go a step ahead and do the math i.e. 3.5 + 3.5 =7, that is not a "typing mistake" or "typographical mistake". I think it was not even the count of sura(s); it was the symbolic attachment to 7 that many folks have.
Even though the intent for the offering is the same; there are just as many similarities between Salaat and Dua as there are differences.
Again, there are 4 Rakats in Salaat not 6 or 7. Please re-read my previous post on this topic.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:21 am

The following are some salient facts about Salat that I compiled while I was at the I.I.S.

Salat: Prayer is a fundamental principle of Islam. This principle is universally accepted by all schools within Islam. The principle is prescribed in the Quran. The form and times of prayer not stated categorically.

In accordance with the traditions of the Prophet, the majority of the Muslims perform their ritual prayers 5 times a day.

1. Fajr - Dawn (2 Rakahs)
2. Zuhr - Noon (4 Rakahs)
3. Asr - Approximately 11/2 hr after noon. (4 Rakahs)
4. Mghrib - Sunset (3 Rakahs)
5. Ishaa - 11/2 hr after sunset (4 Rakahs)

The Shias combine 2&3 and 4&5, resulting in three times prayer.

2 kinds of Salat: compulsory (Fard)/ optional

Compulsory - 5 times and Jumah congregation

Eid Prayers - highly recommended by the Prophet.

Basic unit of prayer is a Rakah. It comprises of:

a) Takbiratu-i-ihram.
In it you declare your intent (Niyat). Whether you are performing an obligatory or optional prayer, or whether you are performing Idd Prayer.

b) Tawwaudh: Audhu bi lahi min shaitan nir ra jim (I seek refuge from the devil and the evil spirits)

c) Surat-al Fateha - Important

d) Any other sura ( difference between Shia and Sunni). The Shia insist on a full Sura whereas the Sunnis can say partial.

e) Kunut in the 2nd Rakah

f) Ruku - Half prostration

g) Sujud - full prostration (twice)

The Salat ends with:

Tashahhud - Shahada followed by salwaat

Salaam

If we consider a part of Dua as equivalent/comparable to a Rakah, then we recite 3 X 6 = 18 rakahs per day. This is one rakah more than 2 + 4 + 4 + 3 + 4 = 17 rakahs performed during five times salat.

zubair_mahamood · Post by **zubair_mahamood** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:59 am

YAM

kmaherali wrote:Salaam

If we consider a part of Dua as equivalent to a Rakah, then we recite
3 X 6 = 18 rakahs per day. This is one rakah more than 2 + 4 + 4 + 3 + 4 = 17 rakahs performed during five times salat.

Here we are missing few points. They are three types of namaz performed in a day and on every Friday or on Eid’s a special Namaz called Wajib is performed that cannot be offered alone.

1) Farz Namaz is compulsory and denial of which renders one a non Muslim.

2) Sunnah Namaz is optional and are those practiced by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

3) Nafil Namaz is optional and regarded as extra prayers which bring more reward.

4) Wajib Namaz is compulsory and denial of which renders one a sinner.

In Fajr Namaz they are total 4 rakahs [2 rakahs Farz and 2 rakahs Sunnah].

In Zuhr Namaz they are total 12 rakahs [4 rakahs Sunnah, 4 rakahs Farz, 2 rakahs Sunnah and 2 rakahs Nafil].

In Asr Namaz they are 8 rakahs [4 rakahs Sunnah and 4 rakahs Farz].

In Mghrib Namaz they are 7 rakahs [3 rakahs Farz, 2 rakahs Sunnah and 2 rakahs Nafil].

In Ishaa Namaz they are 17 rakahs [4 rakahs Sunnah, 4 rakahs Farz, 2 rakahs Sunnah, 2 rakahs Nafil, 3 rakahs Vitter and 2 rakahs Nafil].

In general Sunnies and Shias offer all four namaz accordance with The day. sjd

MH

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:12 pm

zubair_mahamood wrote: Here we are missing few points. They are three types of namaz performed in a day and on every Friday or on Eid’s a special Namaz called Wajib is performed that cannot be offered alone.

This shows that it is difficult to arrive at a consensus even on the basic principle of faith. How difficult then would it be to arrive at a consensus on other aspects of life? Hence the need for a living authority.

zubair_mahamood · Post by **zubair_mahamood** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:32 pm

That’s the reason y we have Living guide. We need to b thankful to Allah for giving us Imam and we should try our best to spread Imam’s Words.

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:40 pm

I am very glad to see both posts by kmaherali and zubair_mahamood. I hope you both continue to post facts with personal research and not just quote someone whom you had heard speak. I think there is a greater need for folks to do fact checking when posting here because folks read things and posts things and it gets repeated/propagated when it may not always be the case, hence giving birth to rumors, myths and legends.
Now back to the topic at hand, I agree there is more than one way to offer thanks, beg for mercy or beg for blessings and it further pronounces the pluralism and emphasizes that Islam not monolithic faith therefore, one should not compare or contrast their rituals for the sake of satisfying/justify some compliances.

Semanur38 · Post by **Semanur38** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:21 am

Salam alaikum wa ya Ali Madad (what is the answer to this?),

this isn`t right:

d) Any other sura ( difference between Shia and Sunni). The Shia insist on a full Sura whereas the Sunnis can say partial.

We, Sunni- Muslims, have to read a short, but completely sura, too.

Can somebody please post your Dia, which you recite?
I`m truley interested in....

with greetings
wa salam
Semanur

zubair_mahamood · Post by **zubair_mahamood** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:13 pm

YAM

ShamsB wrote:
naushina wrote:Hii
am talking about Praying NAMAAZ not Reciting Dua
Whats the differnt between Dua n Namaaz.
Can anybody explain to me please?
Namaaz has never been mentioned in the Qu'ran..dua and salaat have been mentioned..

shams I m sorry, I totally disagree with you. Let's take that Namaz is not mention in Quran and Salaat and Dua are mention. That means people doing salaat and Dua are following Allah word and people doing Namaz aren’t.

Then people in Middle east who do salaat are fine and on Allah words, so just let me tell you that in every corner of world every Sunni Muslim pray to Allah in same manner. I am born in India, visited Middle East, and living in Europe. I had opportunity to go to different mosques; I have never felt any change in Namaz, the different was culture and nature or belief of peoples.

And since when we have complete knowledge of Holy Quran? Coming to our basic belief of faith that Quran is Zahir and Batine, it’s Imam who tells us the meaning according to time and need of his Murids.

ShamsB wrote: also if you count the number of Quranic surahs recited in the 5 time namaz i.e. 4 surahs x 5 times a day = 20 surahs per day..
look at the dua...7 surahs x 3 times a day = 21 surahs per day]

which has more sawab?.....

I am sorry again. Do we have 7 Surahs in Dua? According to me there is difference between Surahs and Verses or an Ayath of Quran.

4 surahs x 5 times a day = 20 surahs per day is completly wrong.. Take a calculator.

In Fajr Namaz they are total 4 rakahs [2 rakahs Farz and 2 rakahs Sunnah]. Surah+surah= total surah { 4 + 4 = 8 }

In Zuhr Namaz they are total 12 rakahs [4 rakahs Sunnah, 4 rakahs Farz, 2 rakahs Sunnah and 2 rakahs Nafil]. Surah+surah= total surah { 8 + 6 + 4 + 4 = 22 }

In Asr Namaz they are 8 rakahs [4 rakahs Sunnah and 4 rakahs Farz]. Surah+surah= total surah { 8+ 6 = 14 }

In Mghrib Namaz they are 7 rakahs [3 rakahs Farz, 2 rakahs Sunnah and 2 rakahs Nafil]. Surah+surah= total surah { 5 + 4 + 4 = 13 }

In Ishaa Namaz they are 17 rakahs [4 rakahs Sunnah, 4 rakahs Farz, 2 rakahs Sunnah, 2 rakahs Nafil, 3 rakahs Vitter and 2 rakahs Nafil]. Surah+surah= total surah { 8 + 6 + 4 + 4 + 6 + 4 = 32 }

Let’s calculate Total surahs in all Namaz 8 + 22 + 14 + 13 + 32 = ?.

So u tell me which has more sawab?

In generally all Sunni Muslims follow this Patten of Namaz weather living in east or west depending on individuals belief. For me I haven’t seen my parents and elders missing any Namaz and those who do Namaz regular will at least do 5 Farz namaz a day.

Let’s calculate surahs only in Farz Namaz 4 + 6 + 6 + 5 + 6 = 27

So u tell me which has more sawab?

Dear Brother its not Dua or Namaz which is superior. It’s Allah, Whose word is superior which make his creatures superior. I think most of Ismailies have never read about Prophet Muhammad. I advice you all to have knowledge of The Last prophet Muhammad; I believe that the only person who has complete Knowledge of Allah is Prophet Muhammad. Mowlana Ali shared his complete Knowledge with him and we have no knowledge about them. The only person who can guide us is MHI.

May Mowlana Hazar Imam give us knowledge which can lead us to reach him. SJD

Zubair

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:18 pm

zubair_mahamood wrote:YAM
ShamsB wrote:
naushina wrote:Hii
am talking about Praying NAMAAZ not Reciting Dua
Whats the differnt between Dua n Namaaz.
Can anybody explain to me please?
Namaaz has never been mentioned in the Qu'ran..dua and salaat have been mentioned..
Dear Brother its not Dua or Namaz which is superior. It’s Allah, Whose word is superior which make his creatures superior. I think most of Ismailies have never read about Prophet Muhammad. I advice you all to have knowledge of The Last prophet Muhammad; I believe that the only person who has complete Knowledge of Allah is Prophet Muhammad. Mowlana Ali shared his complete Knowledge with him and we have no knowledge about them. The only person who can guide us is MHI.

May Mowlana Hazar Imam give us knowledge which can lead us to reach him. SJD

Zubair

And it is the same farman of this Hazar Imam that says RECITE DUA...and understand it's meaning....nowhere does he say recite Namaz....

Ismailism is based on one thing and one thing only..that is the IMAM...we have given baiyat to follow that Imam..He says..recite dua..i recite dua..
he says wear spandex to JK and sing Madonna songs...I will be there...
you have to accept that first and foremost...than all your questions will be answered of their own accord.....

S.

nagib · Post by **nagib** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:07 am

Imam Jaffar Sadiq Ma Bap has said that the one who martyred Imam Husseyn Ma Bap, and who was the damned Shimar, had declared while killing Mowla: "I practise Namaz and I must hasten to martyr you as I have to go say my evening Namaz". Look how evil he was: He had come to martyr Imam-e-Zaman, and on the other side, he said "I cannot miss the Namaz"!

He who does not know his Imam, no matter the number of Namaz and fastings he accomplishes, it will do him no good. Those who are the slaves of the Namaz, and who draw their sword against Imam-e-Zaman, are doomed to Hell.

Aga Ali Shah quoting Mowlana Jafar Sadiq on the subject of Namaz On 3rd of the Month of Bhadar Ashoud 1934 of the Samvat Calendar (1877 A.D.)

zubair_mahamood · Post by **zubair_mahamood** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:20 am

Ya Ali Madaad

nagib wrote:Imam Jaffar Sadiq Ma Bap has said that the one who martyred Imam Husseyn Ma Bap, and who was the damned Shimar, had declared while killing Mowla: "I practise Namaz and I must hasten to martyr you as I have to go say my evening Namaz". Look how evil he was: He had come to martyr Imam-e-Zaman, and on the other side, he said "I cannot miss the Namaz"!

He who does not know his Imam, no matter the number of Namaz and fastings he accomplishes, it will do him no good. Those who are the slaves of the Namaz, and who draw their sword against Imam-e-Zaman, are doomed to Hell.
Aga Ali Shah quoting Mowlana Jafar Sadiq on the subject of Namaz On 3rd of the Month of Bhadar Ashoud 1934 of the Samvat Calendar (1877 A.D.)

Hats off for your knowledge my brother.

Imam replies everyone according to there personality and understanding of faith and belief. Namaz was Allah gift to Prophet Muhammad Umath (followers) not for Sunnis or Shias. Prophet Muhammad Met Allah on Maharaj Night and he bought Namaz for his followers from Allah.

Let it be Sunni or Shia or Ismaili we follow Prophet just know your Kalima or declaration of your faith “la ilaha ill al lahu, muham madur rasulul lahi” (I think everyone knows the meaning of our Kalima if not check Part two of Dua

One of Prophetic hadith “One day while we were sitting with the messenger of Allah there appeared before us a man whose clothes were exceedingly white and whose hair was exceedingly black; no signs of journeying were to be seen on him and none of us knew him. He walked up and sat down by the prophet. Resting his knees against his and placing the palms of his hands on his thighs, he said:"O Muhammed, tell me about Islam". The messenger of Allah said: "Islam is to testify that there is no god but Allah and Muhammed is the messenger of Allah, to perform the prayers, to pay the zakat, to fast in Ramadhan, and to make the pilgrimage to the House if you are able to do so." He said:"You have spoken rightly", and we were amazed at him asking him and saying that he had spoken rightly. He said: "Then tell me about eman."He said:"It is to believe in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day, and to believe in divine destiny, both the good and the evil thereof." He said:"You have spoken rightly". He said: " Then tell me about ehsan." He said: "It is to worship Allah as though you are seeing Him, and while you see Him not yet truly He sees you". He said: "Then tell me about the Hour". He said: "The one questioned about it knows no better than the questioner." He said: "Then tell me about its signs." He said: "That the slave-girl will give birth to her mistress and that you will see the barefooted, naked, destitute herdsman competing in constructing lofty buildings." Then he took himself off and I stayed for a time. Then he said: "O Omar, do you know who the questioner was?" I said: "Allah and His messenger know best". He said: "He was Jebreel (Gabriel), who came to you to teach you your religion."”.

For my faith is “I believe in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day, and to believe in divine destiny, both the good and the evil there of. God is one”

Let me explain my faith I believe in Allah, His angels, His books meaning all the holy books (Bhagavath geta, Bible, Quran) His messengers meaning From Prophet Adam to Hazir Imam by saying Hazir Imam I m referring to physical body = Adam+ Krishna + Mosa + Jesus + Prophet + Mowla Ali + Mowla Hazir Imam, Which means I believe in all the faiths and their practices as it’s the same Noor which taught this practices

We easily criticises other Faith and practices. Every criticism goes to Allah.

For example if your critics Namaz then ask yourself some questions.

Q. Who taught Namaz?

A. Last Prophet of Allah.

Q. What is the relationship between Prophet Muhammad with Mowlana Hazar Imam or Mowlana Ali or Allah (The Holy Noor)?

A. “Imran bin Husayn has narrated that Allah's Messenger said: What do you people want about Ali? What do you people want about Ali? What do you people want about Ali? Then added: Surely Ali is from me and I am from Ali and after me he is the guardian of every believer.”

It’s the same prophet who said Mowlana Ali as the Master of Every Believer.

“It is narrated by Zayd bin Arqam When Allah's Messenger was returning after the Hajjat-ul-wada, he stayed at Ghadir Khum. He commanded that a canopy should be put up and so it was done. Then he said: It seems as if I am about to breathe my last which I shall accept. Indeed, I am leaving two important things in your midst which exceed each other in importance: One (is) Allah's Book and the other (is) my progeny. Now it is to be seen how do you treat both of them after me and they will not be separated from each other, and they will appear before me at the Fountain of kawthar. Then added: Surely Allah is my Master and I am the master of every believer. Then, holding Ali’s hand, he said: One who has me as his master has this (Ali) as his guardian. O Allah! Befriend him who befriends him (Ali) and be the enemy of one who is his enemy.”

Prophet Muhammad explained us who is Ali in simple way to make us understand.

“It is related by Sad bin Abi Waqas I heard Allah's Messenger say: One who has me as his master has Ali as his master. And I heard him say (to Ali ): You are in my place as Harun was in Musa's place, but there is no prophet after me. And I also heard him say (on the occasion of the battle of Khaybar): Today I shall bestow the flag on the person who loves Allah and His Messenger.

What The Master of Believers says about Prophet Muhammad and their relationship.

“It has been disclosed to me by my lord (referring to Hidden Knowledge)…….. And this knowledge was hidden from all prophets except the Master of this Shari’s of yours (i.e. Muhammad). He taught me his knowledge and I taught him my knowledge. We are the first warning and the last and the warning for all times and periods. Through us perishes him who perishes and through us is saved him who is saved”.

All this statements are for us to understand. Do you think Ali didn’t know who is Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Muhammad didn’t knew who Ali is?

Q. Who holds the Prophetic Noor or who holds the position of Prophet today?

A. Noor Mowlana Hazar Imam, He holds both the rank of Prophet and Ali. In tasbi Pir Shah: Pir is refers to the light of Holy Prophet and Shah is refers to Light of Hazrat Ali.

Q. Were does your criticism go?

A. MHI.

Q. If you believe in MHI. Think how much time it will take MHI to make all his creation do Dua?

A. Not even a sec.

Q. Why are we arguing………………?

A. let them practice Namaz, let them do puja, let them go to Masjid or church it doesn’t affect our Faith. Everyone is accountable for His Deeds good or bad.

And if you thing Sunnis or other sect go direct into hell and we Ismailies have licence to heaven.

Allah is Rehamat, if you ask Him justice on the Bases of your Deeds (I.e.) your good deeds (Tasbi, Dua, etc) and on your bad deeds. I will tell you there will be very few who have zero bad deeds. One can only enter Janat on the Rehamat of Allah. Stop believing Ismailies have got licence to heaven, when we recognise Imam we are lucky that we got a Path and by following this we can reach Allah and we are in the beginning stage of this path.

Imam Aga Ali Sha replied for a question in 1934 and if you understand the concept of the Farman, it was for Ismailies to be regular to Prayers. Namaz was an example.

Today Mowlana Hazar Imam is talking about Islam and Pluralism. Institutions are building to tech Pluralism. Today Islam and Human community is divided, please don’t let our kid inherit problem that we faced. Let them inherit our Faith not our individual belief.

SJD
Zubair.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:52 pm

zubair_mahamood wrote:Ya Ali Madaad
nagib wrote:Imam Jaffar Sadiq Ma Bap has said that the one who martyred Imam Husseyn Ma Bap, and who was the damned Shimar, had declared while killing Mowla: "I practise Namaz and I must hasten to martyr you as I have to go say my evening Namaz". Look how evil he was: He had come to martyr Imam-e-Zaman, and on the other side, he said "I cannot miss the Namaz"!

He who does not know his Imam, no matter the number of Namaz and fastings he accomplishes, it will do him no good. Those who are the slaves of the Namaz, and who draw their sword against Imam-e-Zaman, are doomed to Hell.
Aga Ali Shah quoting Mowlana Jafar Sadiq on the subject of Namaz On 3rd of the Month of Bhadar Ashoud 1934 of the Samvat Calendar (1877 A.D.)
Hats off for your knowledge my brother.

Imam replies everyone according to there personality and understanding of faith and belief. Namaz was Allah gift to Prophet Muhammad Umath (followers) not for Sunnis or Shias. Prophet Muhammad Met Allah on Maharaj Night and he bought Namaz for his followers from Allah.

Let it be Sunni or Shia or Ismaili we follow Prophet just know your Kalima or declaration of your faith “la ilaha ill al lahu, muham madur rasulul lahi” (I think everyone knows the meaning of our Kalima if not check Part two of Dua

One of Prophetic hadith “One day while we were sitting with the messenger of Allah there appeared before us a man whose clothes were exceedingly white and whose hair was exceedingly black; no signs of journeying were to be seen on him and none of us knew him. He walked up and sat down by the prophet. Resting his knees against his and placing the palms of his hands on his thighs, he said:"O Muhammed, tell me about Islam". The messenger of Allah said: "Islam is to testify that there is no god but Allah and Muhammed is the messenger of Allah, to perform the prayers, to pay the zakat, to fast in Ramadhan, and to make the pilgrimage to the House if you are able to do so." He said:"You have spoken rightly", and we were amazed at him asking him and saying that he had spoken rightly. He said: "Then tell me about eman."He said:"It is to believe in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day, and to believe in divine destiny, both the good and the evil thereof." He said:"You have spoken rightly". He said: " Then tell me about ehsan." He said: "It is to worship Allah as though you are seeing Him, and while you see Him not yet truly He sees you". He said: "Then tell me about the Hour". He said: "The one questioned about it knows no better than the questioner." He said: "Then tell me about its signs." He said: "That the slave-girl will give birth to her mistress and that you will see the barefooted, naked, destitute herdsman competing in constructing lofty buildings." Then he took himself off and I stayed for a time. Then he said: "O Omar, do you know who the questioner was?" I said: "Allah and His messenger know best". He said: "He was Jebreel (Gabriel), who came to you to teach you your religion."”.

For my faith is “I believe in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day, and to believe in divine destiny, both the good and the evil there of. God is one”

Let me explain my faith I believe in Allah, His angels, His books meaning all the holy books (Bhagavath geta, Bible, Quran) His messengers meaning From Prophet Adam to Hazir Imam by saying Hazir Imam I m referring to physical body = Adam+ Krishna + Mosa + Jesus + Prophet + Mowla Ali + Mowla Hazir Imam, Which means I believe in all the faiths and their practices as it’s the same Noor which taught this practices

We easily criticises other Faith and practices. Every criticism goes to Allah.

For example if your critics Namaz then ask yourself some questions.

Q. Who taught Namaz?

A. Last Prophet of Allah.

Q. What is the relationship between Prophet Muhammad with Mowlana Hazar Imam or Mowlana Ali or Allah (The Holy Noor)?

A. “Imran bin Husayn has narrated that Allah's Messenger said: What do you people want about Ali? What do you people want about Ali? What do you people want about Ali? Then added: Surely Ali is from me and I am from Ali and after me he is the guardian of every believer.”

It’s the same prophet who said Mowlana Ali as the Master of Every Believer.

“It is narrated by Zayd bin Arqam When Allah's Messenger was returning after the Hajjat-ul-wada, he stayed at Ghadir Khum. He commanded that a canopy should be put up and so it was done. Then he said: It seems as if I am about to breathe my last which I shall accept. Indeed, I am leaving two important things in your midst which exceed each other in importance: One (is) Allah's Book and the other (is) my progeny. Now it is to be seen how do you treat both of them after me and they will not be separated from each other, and they will appear before me at the Fountain of kawthar. Then added: Surely Allah is my Master and I am the master of every believer. Then, holding Ali’s hand, he said: One who has me as his master has this (Ali) as his guardian. O Allah! Befriend him who befriends him (Ali) and be the enemy of one who is his enemy.”

Prophet Muhammad explained us who is Ali in simple way to make us understand.

“It is related by Sad bin Abi Waqas I heard Allah's Messenger say: One who has me as his master has Ali as his master. And I heard him say (to Ali ): You are in my place as Harun was in Musa's place, but there is no prophet after me. And I also heard him say (on the occasion of the battle of Khaybar): Today I shall bestow the flag on the person who loves Allah and His Messenger.

What The Master of Believers says about Prophet Muhammad and their relationship.

“It has been disclosed to me by my lord (referring to Hidden Knowledge)…….. And this knowledge was hidden from all prophets except the Master of this Shari’s of yours (i.e. Muhammad). He taught me his knowledge and I taught him my knowledge. We are the first warning and the last and the warning for all times and periods. Through us perishes him who perishes and through us is saved him who is saved”.

All this statements are for us to understand. Do you think Ali didn’t know who is Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Muhammad didn’t knew who Ali is?

Q. Who holds the Prophetic Noor or who holds the position of Prophet today?

A. Noor Mowlana Hazar Imam, He holds both the rank of Prophet and Ali. In tasbi Pir Shah: Pir is refers to the light of Holy Prophet and Shah is refers to Light of Hazrat Ali.

Q. Were does your criticism go?

A. MHI.

Q. If you believe in MHI. Think how much time it will take MHI to make all his creation do Dua?

A. Not even a sec.

Q. Why are we arguing………………?

A. let them practice Namaz, let them do puja, let them go to Masjid or church it doesn’t affect our Faith. Everyone is accountable for His Deeds good or bad.

And if you thing Sunnis or other sect go direct into hell and we Ismailies have licence to heaven.

Allah is Rehamat, if you ask Him justice on the Bases of your Deeds (I.e.) your good deeds (Tasbi, Dua, etc) and on your bad deeds. I will tell you there will be very few who have zero bad deeds. One can only enter Janat on the Rehamat of Allah. Stop believing Ismailies have got licence to heaven, when we recognise Imam we are lucky that we got a Path and by following this we can reach Allah and we are in the beginning stage of this path.

Imam Aga Ali Sha replied for a question in 1934 and if you understand the concept of the Farman, it was for Ismailies to be regular to Prayers. Namaz was an example.

Today Mowlana Hazar Imam is talking about Islam and Pluralism. Institutions are building to tech Pluralism. Today Islam and Human community is divided, please don’t let our kid inherit problem that we faced. Let them inherit our Faith not our individual belief.

SJD
Zubair.

You quote a hadith of the prophet...i quote many farmans of the imam...say you dua....nowhere does the imam say..Say your Namaz..Imam says.>SAY YOUR DUA<
You claim to be an ismaili..however it seems that you have been endowed with your own sect..choosing to follow that which pleases you and that which fits in with your other beliefs.
the first thing you have to learn about ismailism and being an ismaili is that Ismailism is based SOLELY on one THING..and that is the IMAM.
The Imam is the Alpha and the Omega..the beginning and the end...upon him..ISMAILISM is based..not on the Qu'ran..
As an Ismaili..i am bound to the farmans of the Imam..he says die..i die..no questions asked..no second thoughts....understand that and you will understand ismailism's core.

and you tend to overlook one major aspect of the dua..this dua wasn't cooked up by me..or my grandfather or anyone else's grandfather...but by the IMAM of the TIME...

Keep that mind....

Ya Ali Madad.

Shams

GMR · Post by **GMR** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:25 am

I'm also an Ismaili by birth and I trust in one God and His Greatness, His messengers (124,000 prophets), His angels, His Imams, on the Day of Judgement based on the bad or good deeds. When Imam of the Time is speaking about Islam and pluralism, who we are to intepret our faith according to our wishes and beliefs. We have to think about this. I myself have heard in Holy Deedars of the Imam since 1960 speaking (Insha Allah) meaning (if God wanted). However I fully agree with the views expressed by brother Zubar.

zubair_mahamood · Post by **zubair_mahamood** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:10 am

ShamsB wrote:
zubair_mahamood wrote:Ya Ali Madaad
nagib wrote:Imam Jaffar Sadiq Ma Bap has said that the one who martyred Imam Husseyn Ma Bap, and who was the damned Shimar, had declared while killing Mowla: "I practise Namaz and I must hasten to martyr you as I have to go say my evening Namaz". Look how evil he was: He had come to martyr Imam-e-Zaman, and on the other side, he said "I cannot miss the Namaz"!

He who does not know his Imam, no matter the number of Namaz and fastings he accomplishes, it will do him no good. Those who are the slaves of the Namaz, and who draw their sword against Imam-e-Zaman, are doomed to Hell.
Aga Ali Shah quoting Mowlana Jafar Sadiq on the subject of Namaz On 3rd of the Month of Bhadar Ashoud 1934 of the Samvat Calendar (1877 A.D.)
Hats off for your knowledge my brother.

Imam replies everyone according to there personality and understanding of faith and belief. Namaz was Allah gift to Prophet Muhammad Umath (followers) not for Sunnis or Shias. Prophet Muhammad Met Allah on Maharaj Night and he bought Namaz for his followers from Allah.

Let it be Sunni or Shia or Ismaili we follow Prophet just know your Kalima or declaration of your faith “la ilaha ill al lahu, muham madur rasulul lahi” (I think everyone knows the meaning of our Kalima if not check Part two of Dua

One of Prophetic hadith “One day while we were sitting with the messenger of Allah there appeared before us a man whose clothes were exceedingly white and whose hair was exceedingly black; no signs of journeying were to be seen on him and none of us knew him. He walked up and sat down by the prophet. Resting his knees against his and placing the palms of his hands on his thighs, he said:"O Muhammed, tell me about Islam". The messenger of Allah said: "Islam is to testify that there is no god but Allah and Muhammed is the messenger of Allah, to perform the prayers, to pay the zakat, to fast in Ramadhan, and to make the pilgrimage to the House if you are able to do so." He said:"You have spoken rightly", and we were amazed at him asking him and saying that he had spoken rightly. He said: "Then tell me about eman."He said:"It is to believe in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day, and to believe in divine destiny, both the good and the evil thereof." He said:"You have spoken rightly". He said: " Then tell me about ehsan." He said: "It is to worship Allah as though you are seeing Him, and while you see Him not yet truly He sees you". He said: "Then tell me about the Hour". He said: "The one questioned about it knows no better than the questioner." He said: "Then tell me about its signs." He said: "That the slave-girl will give birth to her mistress and that you will see the barefooted, naked, destitute herdsman competing in constructing lofty buildings." Then he took himself off and I stayed for a time. Then he said: "O Omar, do you know who the questioner was?" I said: "Allah and His messenger know best". He said: "He was Jebreel (Gabriel), who came to you to teach you your religion."”.

For my faith is “I believe in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day, and to believe in divine destiny, both the good and the evil there of. God is one”

Let me explain my faith I believe in Allah, His angels, His books meaning all the holy books (Bhagavath geta, Bible, Quran) His messengers meaning From Prophet Adam to Hazir Imam by saying Hazir Imam I m referring to physical body = Adam+ Krishna + Mosa + Jesus + Prophet + Mowla Ali + Mowla Hazir Imam, Which means I believe in all the faiths and their practices as it’s the same Noor which taught this practices

We easily criticises other Faith and practices. Every criticism goes to Allah.

For example if your critics Namaz then ask yourself some questions.

Q. Who taught Namaz?

A. Last Prophet of Allah.

Q. What is the relationship between Prophet Muhammad with Mowlana Hazar Imam or Mowlana Ali or Allah (The Holy Noor)?

A. “Imran bin Husayn has narrated that Allah's Messenger said: What do you people want about Ali? What do you people want about Ali? What do you people want about Ali? Then added: Surely Ali is from me and I am from Ali and after me he is the guardian of every believer.”

It’s the same prophet who said Mowlana Ali as the Master of Every Believer.

“It is narrated by Zayd bin Arqam When Allah's Messenger was returning after the Hajjat-ul-wada, he stayed at Ghadir Khum. He commanded that a canopy should be put up and so it was done. Then he said: It seems as if I am about to breathe my last which I shall accept. Indeed, I am leaving two important things in your midst which exceed each other in importance: One (is) Allah's Book and the other (is) my progeny. Now it is to be seen how do you treat both of them after me and they will not be separated from each other, and they will appear before me at the Fountain of kawthar. Then added: Surely Allah is my Master and I am the master of every believer. Then, holding Ali’s hand, he said: One who has me as his master has this (Ali) as his guardian. O Allah! Befriend him who befriends him (Ali) and be the enemy of one who is his enemy.”

Prophet Muhammad explained us who is Ali in simple way to make us understand.

“It is related by Sad bin Abi Waqas I heard Allah's Messenger say: One who has me as his master has Ali as his master. And I heard him say (to Ali ): You are in my place as Harun was in Musa's place, but there is no prophet after me. And I also heard him say (on the occasion of the battle of Khaybar): Today I shall bestow the flag on the person who loves Allah and His Messenger.

What The Master of Believers says about Prophet Muhammad and their relationship.

“It has been disclosed to me by my lord (referring to Hidden Knowledge)…….. And this knowledge was hidden from all prophets except the Master of this Shari’s of yours (i.e. Muhammad). He taught me his knowledge and I taught him my knowledge. We are the first warning and the last and the warning for all times and periods. Through us perishes him who perishes and through us is saved him who is saved”.

All this statements are for us to understand. Do you think Ali didn’t know who is Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Muhammad didn’t knew who Ali is?

Q. Who holds the Prophetic Noor or who holds the position of Prophet today?

A. Noor Mowlana Hazar Imam, He holds both the rank of Prophet and Ali. In tasbi Pir Shah: Pir is refers to the light of Holy Prophet and Shah is refers to Light of Hazrat Ali.

Q. Were does your criticism go?

A. MHI.

Q. If you believe in MHI. Think how much time it will take MHI to make all his creation do Dua?

A. Not even a sec.

Q. Why are we arguing………………?

A. let them practice Namaz, let them do puja, let them go to Masjid or church it doesn’t affect our Faith. Everyone is accountable for His Deeds good or bad.

And if you thing Sunnis or other sect go direct into hell and we Ismailies have licence to heaven.

Allah is Rehamat, if you ask Him justice on the Bases of your Deeds (I.e.) your good deeds (Tasbi, Dua, etc) and on your bad deeds. I will tell you there will be very few who have zero bad deeds. One can only enter Janat on the Rehamat of Allah. Stop believing Ismailies have got licence to heaven, when we recognise Imam we are lucky that we got a Path and by following this we can reach Allah and we are in the beginning stage of this path.

Imam Aga Ali Sha replied for a question in 1934 and if you understand the concept of the Farman, it was for Ismailies to be regular to Prayers. Namaz was an example.

Today Mowlana Hazar Imam is talking about Islam and Pluralism. Institutions are building to tech Pluralism. Today Islam and Human community is divided, please don’t let our kid inherit problem that we faced. Let them inherit our Faith not our individual belief.

SJD
Zubair.
You quote a hadith of the prophet...i quote many farmans of the imam...say you dua....nowhere does the imam say..Say your Namaz..Imam says.>SAY YOUR DUA<
You claim to be an ismaili..however it seems that you have been endowed with your own sect..choosing to follow that which pleases you and that which fits in with your other beliefs.
the first thing you have to learn about ismailism and being an ismaili is that Ismailism is based SOLELY on one THING..and that is the IMAM.
The Imam is the Alpha and the Omega..the beginning and the end...upon him..ISMAILISM is based..not on the Qu'ran..
As an Ismaili..i am bound to the farmans of the Imam..he says die..i die..no questions asked..no second thoughts....understand that and you will understand ismailism's core.

and you tend to overlook one major aspect of the dua..this dua wasn't cooked up by me..or my grandfather or anyone else's grandfather...but by the IMAM of the TIME...

Keep that mind....

Ya Ali Madad.

Shams

YA Ali Madaad,

Shams not again! I don’t have any book of Farmans as it’s not easy to find one. I am not against Dua. Since I learn Dua I m practicing it sincerely. Read my posting again you will find I am not talking against Dua or Namaz I m talking of individual beliefs that are dividing society and religion. I am telling here to respect other faiths and practises. Don’t you have any Farman in which Imam tell us to respect other religion and practises.

If you don’t want me to write Hadith plz send all book which have Farmans. I tried to get Farman books from Paris JK but they didn’t reply. It’s not possible to get Farmans from India as non of my friend knows about Ismailis.

Stop talking he say Die,,,, i Die...........Where in world Imam says talk against any religion...........show me farmans were imam says That.

I believe nothing but IMAM. He said "I am not wrong Zubair" so he isnt Wrong which means he and his creation isnot wrong. nothing is wrong. i find Imam in Masjid, Mandir, Gurodura, Jamath khana and every place on earth. if u undertand HE is first and He is Last understand than He on both the sides and I am with him. I am an Ismaili.

YA ALI MADAAD

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:35 pm

zubair_mahamood wrote:
ShamsB wrote:
zubair_mahamood wrote:Ya Ali MadaadYA Ali Madaad,

Shams not again! I don’t have any book of Farmans as it’s not easy to find one. I am not against Dua. Since I learn Dua I m practicing it sincerely. Read my posting again you will find I am not talking against Dua or Namaz I m talking of individual beliefs that are dividing society and religion. I am telling here to respect other faiths and practises. Don’t you have any Farman in which Imam tell us to respect other religion and practises.

If you don’t want me to write Hadith plz send all book which have Farmans. I tried to get Farman books from Paris JK but they didn’t reply. It’s not possible to get Farmans from India as non of my friend knows about Ismailis.

Stop talking he say Die,,,, i Die...........Where in world Imam says talk against any religion...........show me farmans were imam says That.

I believe nothing but IMAM. He said "I am not wrong Zubair" so he isnt Wrong which means he and his creation isnot wrong. nothing is wrong. i find Imam in Masjid, Mandir, Gurodura, Jamath khana and every place on earth. if u undertand HE is first and He is Last understand than He on both the sides and I am with him. I am an Ismaili.

YA ALI MADAAD

Show me one instance in my post where I have said anything against other faiths...nothing against other faiths...you claim to be an ismaili...all i am saying is..FOLLOW ISMAILISM then..which is FOLLOW THE IMAM and HIS GUIDANCE....
in regards to Farmans of the Imam..those Farmans are made for the Murids of the Imam...have you officially been accepted as an Ismaili by the Tariqah Board....has the Imam given Guidance to the Local Boards to permit you entrance to the Jamat Khana and access to the Farmans....?
Until and unless he does that..only He can grant you access to those Farmans....
I am glad to hear that you are practising dua diligently....and I am glad to hear that you consider yourself an Ismaili..however our faith isn't in Taqiya anymore nor are we in a period of Dawr e Satr...we can openly proclaim our faith openly and proudly in most parts of the world..."I am a follower of the Aga Khan"...in other parts we practise guptism..but those instances are rare and mostly in China..(note i said mostly)...
You live in Paris..i beleive France allows freedom to practise whichever religion you choose...you have faith in the Imam..as you say..proclaim your faith and step forward...as a Follower of the Imam....what are you afraid of?
A little out of context but it fit the bill
"te Din Saami mune paas tedavo jo ji...Paklido je maro Haath"

Ya Ali Madad.

Shams

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:41 pm

zubair_mahamood wrote:
ShamsB wrote:
zubair_mahamood wrote:Ya Ali MadaadYA Ali Madaad,

Shams not again! I don’t have any book of Farmans as it’s not easy to find one. I am not against Dua. Since I learn Dua I m practicing it sincerely. Read my posting again you will find I am not talking against Dua or Namaz I m talking of individual beliefs that are dividing society and religion. I am telling here to respect other faiths and practises. Don’t you have any Farman in which Imam tell us to respect other religion and practises.

If you don’t want me to write Hadith plz send all book which have Farmans. I tried to get Farman books from Paris JK but they didn’t reply. It’s not possible to get Farmans from India as non of my friend knows about Ismailis.

Stop talking he say Die,,,, i Die...........Where in world Imam says talk against any religion...........show me farmans were imam says That.

I believe nothing but IMAM. He said "I am not wrong Zubair" so he isnt Wrong which means he and his creation isnot wrong. nothing is wrong. i find Imam in Masjid, Mandir, Gurodura, Jamath khana and every place on earth. if u undertand HE is first and He is Last understand than He on both the sides and I am with him. I am an Ismaili.

YA ALI MADAAD

Show me one instance in my post where I have said anything against other faiths...nothing against other faiths...you claim to be an ismaili...all i am saying is..FOLLOW ISMAILISM then..which is FOLLOW THE IMAM and HIS GUIDANCE....
in regards to Farmans of the Imam..those Farmans are made for the Murids of the Imam...have you officially been accepted as an Ismaili by the Tariqah Board....has the Imam given Guidance to the Local Boards to permit you entrance to the Jamat Khana and access to the Farmans....?
Until and unless he does that..only He can grant you access to those Farmans....
I am glad to hear that you are practising dua diligently....and I am glad to hear that you consider yourself an Ismaili..however our faith isn't in Taqiya anymore nor are we in a period of Dawr e Satr...we can proclaim our faith openly and proudly in most parts of the world..."I am a follower of the Aga Khan"...in other parts we practise guptism..but those instances are rare and mostly in China..(note i said mostly)...
You live in Paris..i beleive France allows freedom to practise whichever religion you choose...you have faith in the Imam..as you say..proclaim your faith and step forward...as a Follower of the Imam....what are you afraid of?
A little out of context but it fit the bill
"te Din Saami mune paas tedavo jo ji...Paklido je maro Haath"

Ya Ali Madad.

Shams

zubair_mahamood · Post by **zubair_mahamood** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:18 am

Ya Ali Madaad

ShamsB wrote:Show me one instance in my post where I have said anything against other faiths...nothing against other faiths...you claim to be an ismaili...all i am saying is..FOLLOW ISMAILISM then..which is FOLLOW THE IMAM and HIS GUIDANCE....

which if said in congregation exceeds that said solo by 27 degrees (hadith of the prophet)...

so if your namaz/salat is your own..how are you going to have the congregation follow you?

You not once but twice point finger on my faith.

Sunni Faith is based on 5 pillars. 1) Kalama, 2) Namaz, 3) Roza, 4) Zakat and 5) Hajj and Jihad (some say Jihad is its 6 pillars but I put Jihad with hajj as everyone has a unique definition of it). By pointing finger Namaz or talk wrong about it you and other disturb one pillar of it. Most of u has heard little about namaz, we don’t do namaz as we do Dua but it doesn’t mean that is wrong way to communicate with Allah! I have seen people who don’t hear, see and talk they don’t do Dua or namaz like us but they have a way to communicate, similarly Sunni belief’s are so strong that sometime Sunnis don’t understand when they talk about our faith. I move with Sunni friends, they hat us, in the beginning they had their perception about us which was total wrong and when I found a situation I explain them about our concepts, over a period of time they have started respecting our concepts. We as human have right to knowledge but most of us dont understand others and have negative image about others.

ShamsB wrote:In regards to Farmans of the Imam. those Farmans are made for the Murids of the Imam...have you officially been accepted as an Ismaili by the Traiqah Board....has the Imam given Guidance to the Local Boards to permit you entrance to the Jamat Khana and access to the Farmans....?

Farman of Imam. The first Farman I got from Imam is “I am not wrong zubair” and similarly I received 15 Farmans which guided me, one of them was to Do Dua. I don’t need to go to JK for Farmans if Imam will he can give me Farman anywhere. As per my permission and acceptance by Traiqah Board it does take time, Al Waaz saab said me that It may take yrs for Board to accept me as per motivation and my back ground. My motivation is Imam’s Dedaar. People in India and Pakistan have lied, used this as motivation for there personal benefits and have hurt Jamat. Access to JK and Farman of imam in JK are matter of time and I pray everyday to imam to give me patience as patience is my key.

ShamsB wrote:You live in Paris..i beleive France allows freedom to practise whichever religion you choose...you have faith in the Imam..as you say..proclaim your faith and step forward...as a Follower of the Imam....what are you afraid of?

Its true that I live in Paris, even if i was living in Saudi I would have practiced my faith, I don’t fear dearth as it’s in hands of Allah. As I said before I come from a Sunni family, my parents and family member are everything to me. When I wanted to take admission in Jamat, I was disturbed and always thinking what to explain to my family and didn’t know were to go. I read this hadith of Prophet “No person can be mumin unless he loves me more than his family” I think Imam now holds this position of Prophet and he replied me. I went on by the Name of Allah and applied for admission. I had become insecure may time what if my mom come to know about it (as she is my first inspiration, she is my teacher). When I started learning Dua I read this verse.

“(O Prophet) Verily, those who give Thee their
allegiance, they give it but to Allah (Himself); Allah's
hand is upon their hands. Then he, who breaks it, he
certainly breaks it against himself. And he who fulfills
what he has pledged with Allah. He shall in return
reward him in plenty”

I said Allah I gave my hand in your hand by this I shouldn’t lose my mother hand or any once hand. When I did Dua I spiritually put my mother on my left side and in 6 Part I said SJD mama. Well imam proved me that I will not lose my mothers hand and I am proud that she accepts IMAM and is Ismaili like me.(Now u know y i write SJD at the end of my posting as i want everyone to have his Dedaar which is the Biggest Reward for anyone) Can you imagine Imam blessing on me, in Paris I see Ismailis getting there childrens to JK to teach them faith but end up in cry, pledging to Imam (as there childrens dont understand our concept and donot follow our faith). I get every thing by His Blessing ofcourse I didn’t get permission to attend JK. I often end up sitting in Subway or sitting out side JK during Big days (like chand raat, etc) praying and asking Imam for permission to JK. I believe Imam Knows my needs better than me, He Know what is good for me at a particular time and I don’t think it time for me to attend JK so Imam didn’t give me permission.

I am not afraid of any think except I don’t want anyone to point finger on my faith (that’s our Imam). I live in Paris but my family member’s lives in India, Pakistan, Saudi Arab, Europe and North America, and are very religious. I have to manage everything, if they come to know about me they would go crazy, they will not accept me and I am afraid of my family reputation as we don’t live alone( I am unmarried, only son of a reputed and well off family they are lot of Sunni families who want to have relationship with my family). I am not afraid but want to avoid conflicts. I think now you know y even Traiqah Board taking time for decision making, board consist of Panel which look all aspects of my life not just motivation, I think they believe me at the same time want to give me time to understand life. I believe if Imam will and I am sincere with Imam and myself I will soon be accepted by Traiqah Board inshallah. Please be me friend shams I need Ismailis to stand by not against me. I am just liker you but I am basically Sunni and I have to maintain myself Zahari and Bataine. Imam lives two lives and I can follow him till I die inshallah.

I am not afraid anything y I should be.

SJD

Zubair

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:50 pm

zubair_mahamood wrote:Ya Ali Madaad
ShamsB wrote:Show me one instance in my post where I have said anything against other faiths...nothing against other faiths...you claim to be an ismaili...all i am saying is..FOLLOW ISMAILISM then..which is FOLLOW THE IMAM and HIS GUIDANCE....
which if said in congregation exceeds that said solo by 27 degrees (hadith of the prophet)...

so if your namaz/salat is your own..how are you going to have the congregation follow you?

You not once but twice point finger on my faith.

Sunni Faith is based on 5 pillars. 1) Kalama, 2) Namaz, 3) Roza, 4) Zakat and 5) Hajj and Jihad (some say Jihad is its 6 pillars but I put Jihad with hajj as everyone has a unique definition of it). By pointing finger Namaz or talk wrong about it you and other disturb one pillar of it. Most of u has heard little about namaz, we don’t do namaz as we do Dua but it doesn’t mean that is wrong way to communicate with Allah! I have seen people who don’t hear, see and talk they don’t do Dua or namaz like us but they have a way to communicate, similarly Sunni belief’s are so strong that sometime Sunnis don’t understand when they talk about our faith. I move with Sunni friends, they hat us, in the beginning they had their perception about us which was total wrong and when I found a situation I explain them about our concepts, over a period of time they have started respecting our concepts. We as human have right to knowledge but most of us dont understand others and have negative image about others.

ShamsB wrote:In regards to Farmans of the Imam. those Farmans are made for the Murids of the Imam...have you officially been accepted as an Ismaili by the Traiqah Board....has the Imam given Guidance to the Local Boards to permit you entrance to the Jamat Khana and access to the Farmans....?
Farman of Imam. The first Farman I got from Imam is “I am not wrong zubair” and similarly I received 15 Farmans which guided me, one of them was to Do Dua. I don’t need to go to JK for Farmans if Imam will he can give me Farman anywhere. As per my permission and acceptance by Traiqah Board it does take time, Al Waaz saab said me that It may take yrs for Board to accept me as per motivation and my back ground. My motivation is Imam’s Dedaar. People in India and Pakistan have lied, used this as motivation for there personal benefits and have hurt Jamat. Access to JK and Farman of imam in JK are matter of time and I pray everyday to imam to give me patience as patience is my key.

ShamsB wrote:You live in Paris..i beleive France allows freedom to practise whichever religion you choose...you have faith in the Imam..as you say..proclaim your faith and step forward...as a Follower of the Imam....what are you afraid of?
Its true that I live in Paris, even if i was living in Saudi I would have practiced my faith, I don’t fear dearth as it’s in hands of Allah. As I said before I come from a Sunni family, my parents and family member are everything to me. When I wanted to take admission in Jamat, I was disturbed and always thinking what to explain to my family and didn’t know were to go. I read this hadith of Prophet “No person can be mumin unless he loves me more than his family” I think Imam now holds this position of Prophet and he replied me. I went on by the Name of Allah and applied for admission. I had become insecure may time what if my mom come to know about it (as she is my first inspiration, she is my teacher). When I started learning Dua I read this verse.

“(O Prophet) Verily, those who give Thee their
allegiance, they give it but to Allah (Himself); Allah's
hand is upon their hands. Then he, who breaks it, he
certainly breaks it against himself. And he who fulfills
what he has pledged with Allah. He shall in return
reward him in plenty”

I said Allah I gave my hand in your hand by this I shouldn’t lose my mother hand or any once hand. When I did Dua I spiritually put my mother on my left side and in 6 Part I said SJD mama. Well imam proved me that I will not lose my mothers hand and I am proud that she accepts IMAM and is Ismaili like me.(Now u know y i write SJD at the end of my posting as i want everyone to have his Dedaar which is the Biggest Reward for anyone) Can you imagine Imam blessing on me, in Paris I see Ismailis getting there childrens to JK to teach them faith but end up in cry, pledging to Imam (as there childrens dont understand our concept and donot follow our faith). I get every thing by His Blessing ofcourse I didn’t get permission to attend JK. I often end up sitting in Subway or sitting out side JK during Big days (like chand raat, etc) praying and asking Imam for permission to JK. I believe Imam Knows my needs better than me, He Know what is good for me at a particular time and I don’t think it time for me to attend JK so Imam didn’t give me permission.

I am not afraid of any think except I don’t want anyone to point finger on my faith (that’s our Imam). I live in Paris but my family member’s lives in India, Pakistan, Saudi Arab, Europe and North America, and are very religious. I have to manage everything, if they come to know about me they would go crazy, they will not accept me and I am afraid of my family reputation as we don’t live alone( I am unmarried, only son of a reputed and well off family they are lot of Sunni families who want to have relationship with my family). I am not afraid but want to avoid conflicts. I think now you know y even Traiqah Board taking time for decision making, board consist of Panel which look all aspects of my life not just motivation, I think they believe me at the same time want to give me time to understand life. I believe if Imam will and I am sincere with Imam and myself I will soon be accepted by Traiqah Board inshallah. Please be me friend shams I need Ismailis to stand by not against me. I am just liker you but I am basically Sunni and I have to maintain myself Zahari and Bataine. Imam lives two lives and I can follow him till I die inshallah.

I am not afraid anything y I should be.

SJD

Zubair

Ya Ali Madad Zubair

Once again you misread..i never said my dua/salat was my own..to the contrary..i said the dua was given to us by the IMAM of the time..it was prescribed by him and ALL ISMAILIES..WHEREVER IN THE WORLD they maybe are REQUIRED as part of the Faith to recite this 3x a day..first and foremost., above and beyond any other supplication.
The Dua previous to this was also a standard DUA given to us by the Pir.

We aren't sunnis or other shias..we have a living Imam who guides us. We follow this Imam. There is no standard version of the Namaz as far as I know for all Sunnis or all other Shias...if you go into a different mosque you will end up finding that the person leading the prayer may not be reciting what another mosque recites..however EVERY JAMAT KHANA..EVERY WHERE IN THE WORLD..THE SAME DUA IS BEING RECITED..there is a theme of commonality..a creation of common ground..a UNIFYING FORCE.

You bring up the issue at pointing fingers at your Faith..what exactly is your faith..are you following the Imam - Shah Karim..if so then you aren't a SUNNI anymore..but a shia...and if you want to follow both..you can't..
Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah has often said..you can't be a child of two fathers....you can only have one father...
not only the previous imam but the current imam has said numerous times...
We are a faith of Conviction..not one of conveience...you can either remain in it or leave it..

Ismailism besides being based on the Imam has 7 pillars..they have been discussed elsewhere on the board..so i will not elaborate on them here..but please do seek the posting out and read about it.

when we become ismailies..we give our tan (body) man (mind) and dhan (wealth/possesions) to the Imam..the soul is already his...
you speak of your family's reputation..etc...
are you sure you are ready to become an ismaili??
remember we are the same faith that was the Assasins..the fidayeen.....for us..everything is the IMAM..nothing else exists outside the IMAM...not our parents..not our honor..not our families..but just the IMAM and his word....ponder upon that....

you quoted a hadith of the prophet in regards to loving him more than your own family.....when you realize that..you will understand what i am talking about....

In regards to the biggest reward....i will direct you to read the Mathnawi...by Rumi..ismailism isn't about getting deedar of the imam..but about salvation..about become fanafillah...annhilated in the supreme being....

As for Shah Jo Deedar...
do you say SJD when ending your dua?
It took me a long time to figure out what SJD stood for...until i read your last post..
once again..it is a matter of a few keys and a few spaces..really are we that lazy that we can't be bothered to type out the whole prayer.....

I don't wish to hurt your feelings..all i am attempting to do is show you what I understand ismailism to be..and how looking at ismailism outside the box..helped me understand who i was and who the imam was and where the soul needed to go.

with Ya Ali Madad

Shams

zubair_mahamood · Post by **zubair_mahamood** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:29 am

Ya Ali Madad shams.

I thank u for discussing faith with me. I am learning many things.

ShamsB wrote:Once again you misread..i never said my dua/salat was my own..to the contrary..i said the dua was given to us by the IMAM of the time..it was prescribed by him and ALL ISMAILIES..WHEREVER IN THE WORLD they maybe are REQUIRED as part of the Faith to recite this 3x a day..first and foremost., above and beyond any other supplication.

The Dua previous to this was also a standard DUA given to us by the Pir.

We aren't sunnis or other shias..we have a living Imam who guides us. We follow this Imam. There is no standard version of the Namaz as far as I know for all Sunnis or all other Shias...if you go into a different mosque you will end up finding that the person leading the prayer may not be reciting what another mosque recites..however EVERY JAMAT KHANA..EVERY WHERE IN THE WORLD..THE SAME DUA IS BEING RECITED..there is a theme of commonality..a creation of common ground..a UNIFYING FORCE.

Sunni also have standard Namaz as we have a Standard Dua. They follow a standard pattern of namaz everywhere in the world. Only difference is that in every rakath Sunnis have choice of Sura (it should be fully sura not just a versa).

For example:

Fajar namaz 2 rakath farz

In 1st rakath Sunnis start by sana, then Sura al Fatiha and Sura of choice (it depend of occasion of Namaz and which namaz)………..

In 2nd rakath Sura al fatiha and sura of choice………….

Fajar Namaz 2 rakath sunnath

In 1s rakath Sana…Sura Al fatiha…….sura of choice……………

In 2nd rakath Al fatiha……….sura of choice……

Physical they are differences as per different beliefs some of the physical differences are some hold hand some don’t while namaz. When declaring faith some left their finger, some don’t.

ShamsB wrote: You bring up the issue at pointing fingers at your Faith..what exactly is your faith..are you following the Imam - Shah Karim..if so then you aren't a SUNNI anymore..but a shia...and if you want to follow both..you can't..
Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah has often said..you can't be a child of two fathers....you can only have one father...
not only the previous imam but the current imam has said numerous times...
We are a faith of Conviction..not one of conveience...you can either remain in it or leave it..

I am an Ismaili. I am Muslim. I am a human. I am a son. I am brother.

I cannot leave anything, my faith has not taught me to leave responsibilities, Individually I don’t compromise with my faith and religious obligations when I am in group I have to fulfill social obligation and I do fulfill social obligation keep in mind my religious obligations limitation.

To fulfill my social obligation I don’t go and drink wine with French. I go out with them I celebrate their festivals etc….

I go to Masjid as I am born in Sunni family. I can’t oppose or take a talibani approach that I accept imam so I am Ismaili then I won’t come to Masjid I will go to Jamatkhana. It will take time to explain my family and friends. I don’t have a magic word to tell them so that they agree………. If I tell them then next minute you will hear religious clashes in India. You have to understand culture it’s not about convenience. I said before I don’t want any problem or conflict cause of me and my faith. They have been many cases in India and Pakistan, Jamatkhana have been attached by Sunni mobs, that’s one of the reason y convention to Ismaili faith in Pakistan have stopped.

I follow Imam……….. I don’t care about anything happening to me, I care about my family, society and image of Jamat. My silence is compulsory. If Imam will all will accept my faith.

ShamsB wrote: Ismailism besides being based on the Imam has 7 pillars..they have been discussed elsewhere on the board..so i will not elaborate on them here..but please do seek the posting out and read about it.

Can you plz help me to local 7 pillars in forum……….

ShamsB wrote: When we become ismailies..we give our tan (body) man (mind) and dhan (wealth/possesions) to the Imam..the soul is already his...
you speak of your family's reputation..etc...
are you sure you are ready to become an ismaili??
remember we are the same faith that was the Assasins..the fidayeen.....for us..everything is the IMAM..nothing else exists outside the IMAM...not our parents..not our honor..not our families..but just the IMAM and his word....ponder upon that....

you quoted a hadith of the prophet in regards to loving him more than your own family.....when you realize that..you will understand what i am talking about....

I exactly know meaning of tan, man and dhan. Even I gave and I will give inshallah. Imam is all knowing.

ShamsB wrote: In regards to the biggest reward....i will direct you to read the Mathnawi...by Rumi..ismailism isn't about getting deedar of the imam..but about salvation..about become fanafillah...annhilated in the supreme being....

I agree with you on Dedaar. For me Dedaar of Hazar imam made me believe him, that’s y I say biggest reward is Dedaar which gave me faith and if people have Dedaar they faith in will be like me and other Ismailis. That’s y I say Shah Jo Dedaar.

ShamsB wrote: As for Shah Jo Deedar...
do you say SJD when ending your dua?

Yes I say Shah Jo Dedaar in 6th part after names of Imams before going in prostration. If I am wrong correct me please. We can discuss Dua.

Shah Jo Dedaar
Zubair

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:07 am

zubair_mahamood wrote:Ya Ali Madad shams.

I thank u for discussing faith with me. I am learning many things.

Sunni also have standard Namaz as we have a Standard Dua. They follow a standard pattern of namaz everywhere in the world. Only difference is that in every rakath Sunnis have choice of Sura (it should be fully sura not just a versa).

For example:

Fajar namaz 2 rakath farz

In 1st rakath Sunnis start by sana, then Sura al Fatiha and Sura of choice (it depend of occasion of Namaz and which namaz)………..

In 2nd rakath Sura al fatiha and sura of choice………….

Fajar Namaz 2 rakath sunnath

In 1s rakath Sana…Sura Al fatiha…….sura of choice……………

In 2nd rakath Al fatiha……….sura of choice……

Physical they are differences as per different beliefs some of the physical differences are some hold hand some don’t while namaz. When declaring faith some left their finger, some don’t.

Once again, you make my point for me....Dua is the prescribed prayer for the Sevener Shias - Followers of the Aga Khan. That is our OBLIGATORY PRAYER...anything else is above and beyond. Dua is first and foremost.

zubair_mahamood wrote: I am an Ismaili. I am Muslim. I am a human. I am a son. I am brother.

I cannot leave anything, my faith has not taught me to leave responsibilities, Individually I don’t compromise with my faith and religious obligations when I am in group I have to fulfill social obligation and I do fulfill social obligation keep in mind my religious obligations limitation.

To fulfill my social obligation I don’t go and drink wine with French. I go out with them I celebrate their festivals etc….

I go to Masjid as I am born in Sunni family. I can’t oppose or take a talibani approach that I accept imam so I am Ismaili then I won’t come to Masjid I will go to Jamatkhana. It will take time to explain my family and friends. I don’t have a magic word to tell them so that they agree………. If I tell them then next minute you will hear religious clashes in India. You have to understand culture it’s not about convenience. I said before I don’t want any problem or conflict cause of me and my faith. They have been many cases in India and Pakistan, Jamatkhana have been attached by Sunni mobs, that’s one of the reason y convention to Ismaili faith in Pakistan have stopped.

I follow Imam……….. I don’t care about anything happening to me, I care about my family, society and image of Jamat. My silence is compulsory. If Imam will all will accept my faith.
I exactly know meaning of tan, man and dhan. Even I gave and I will give inshallah. Imam is all knowing.

So you're essentially saying that if it were a choice between following the Farman of the Imam and your family's reputation..your family's reputation stands first?
You fail to see the meaning of tan, man and dhan...it means everything, no one else stands above the Imam..no one else takes precedence above the Imam.

zubair_mahamood wrote: Yes I say Shah Jo Dedaar in 6th part after names of Imams before going in prostration. If I am wrong correct me please. We can discuss Dua.

Shah Jo Dedaar
Zubair

My point was to the abbreviation..SJD....not to saying Shah jo Deedar....
I am glad to see you've stopped using abbreviations.

Ya Ali Madad.

Shams

mendicant · Post by **mendicant** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:34 am

from ShamsB

So you're essentially saying that if it were a choice between following the Farman of the Imam and your family's reputation..your family's reputation stands first?
You fail to see the meaning of tan, man and dhan...it means everything, no one else stands above the Imam..no one else takes precedence above the Imam.

Ya Ali madad,

Taqiyya has and will continue to be intrinsic part of Ismaili faith. There are many factors responsible and personal safety being paramount.

If one wishes to practise the faith in secrecy for fears of any sort then, so be it.

True faith springs eternal in the heart & is practised in the heart.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:50 pm

mendicant wrote:from ShamsB

So you're essentially saying that if it were a choice between following the Farman of the Imam and your family's reputation..your family's reputation stands first?
You fail to see the meaning of tan, man and dhan...it means everything, no one else stands above the Imam..no one else takes precedence above the Imam.
Ya Ali madad,

Taqiyya has and will continue to be intrinsic part of Ismaili faith. There are many factors responsible and personal safety being paramount.

If one wishes to practise the faith in secrecy for fears of any sort then, so be it.

True faith springs eternal in the heart & is practised in the heart.

Ya Ali Madad,

If one were practising Taqiya..one wouldn't be announcing one's faith on the internet, especially these days..and Taqiya in France???

Shams

zubair_mahamood · Post by **zubair_mahamood** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:27 am

ShamsB wrote: So you're essentially saying that if it were a choice between following the Farman of the Imam and your family's reputation..your family's reputation stands first?

You fail to see the meaning of tan, man and dhan...it means everything, no one else stands above the Imam..no one else takes precedence above the Imam.

If one were practising Taqiya..one wouldn't be announcing one's faith on the internet, especially these days..and Taqiya in France???

Shams

Ya Ali Madaad shams,

Imam and my family is one and same…my family head is Imam. Don’t make any decision form my side. There is no question of Imam or my family.

I said it will take time for ppl to understand. My name is zubair Mahamood, I didn’t use any fake identity and my personal email address is also available on Ismaili.net which all my family members and friends have. How much time it will take for my family member to know about my faith? ………..Just a click….. And if they do come to know now they will come to know soon may be tomorrow or a year from now or 10yrs from now or 50 yrs from now… I can’t hide my faith forever.

I said I don’t fear anything meaning that I fear absolutely nothing……..y I should fear I didn’t do anything wrong…. If I fear than it means I don’t have faith in Imam…. I have see him without any curtain (without any physical barrier) that is what I can not explain to peoples, I said people will not believe me and y should I make ppl believe me when Imam himself doesn’t appear like that to everyone. That Dedaar was for me, I was looking for answers from Allah and he replied me. I said people about Dedaar as I wanted to follow Imam that’s it. I didn’t declare my faith on net. I am here to learn…..

When I had Holy Dedaar I first tried to understand it and next morning I meet my Ismaili friend to explain what happened. That was the first time I declare my faith in Imam. From that day I said I am Shia Imami Ismaili to everyone I meet (Muslims or Non Muslims) but I was difficult to tell this to my family and friend as I cannot explain them I saw Imam with Noor and I have faith in him…. How will they believe me… u Shams u tell me,,, you as Ismaili don’t trust my words and I have seen many Ismailies ignoring me saying its not possible.. They must be something wrong with Zubair… (I don’t know y)

If it was easy for me to explain Imam then problem of word would be solve in a second all would follow Imam….. Follow his Farmans…. No war… No fights… only peace… the world will never be same….

All friends I made after 31 may 2005 I introduced myself as an Ismaili as I believe in Imam...31 may is the day when I had Dedaar of Imam and I celebrate it as my birthday. I can’t forget my past. Its just 16 months I have lived as Ismaili in my life of 26yrs. I say it will take time for people to understand me. Initially I said I will tell everyone about Dedaar, if someone doesn’t believe me and want to end up relation with me, I will not explain them or compromise with them… I will not leave them but if they prefer to leave me it will be up to them…. (This I have said to my Ismaili friend and to myself)

But one incident has changed my approach. I know a Pakistani Sunni family for more than 4yrs who lives in Paris. Once I had problem of accommodation and this family invited me to live with them as paying guest, when I wanted to give them money they refused to take by saying you are like our kid so please don’t give us money. I lived with them for 8 months without paying for food, electricity,, etc . Then I found a place to live and I shifted. They helped me for only one reason and the reason was my sincerity toward Allah and the way I lived my life on the bases of my faith.

They treated me as their kid and I also respected them like my parents. I found a mother and friend in Paris with whom I discussed everything. As I had Imams Dedaar I was not able to explain her about my faith changes but she could easily see that I was hiding something from her, she was very much worried about me. As she was worried she often called me to know how I was doing, etc

Then one day I made up my mind to tell her what had happened. I told her everything. She didn’t believe Me. She thought something else and said if u leaves your faith for something….. Then your not trust worthy… I don’t trust you any more and don’t want to see you any more… I knew she was angry and I was also angry at her as I was not telling lie… we both reacted crazily… I left her home in anger… she had to take her kid to hospital for routine check she went to hospital and I stared towards my home… on the way I realised I have hurt her… I did a mistake… Dedaar was for me not for her…. I was accompanied by a friend who thought I am very angry and trying to make me cool by reading Nadi Ali over me…

I saw her crying it was something that I never dreamed. Then I turn back went to hospital. I said her sorry and she said me you are my kid how can you leave me like that. She also said I wasn’t able to believe that u left me… how can u do this zubair... I apologised.
Today I meet her as I used too… go to their place on weekend… Do Dua at her place she doesn’t talk about my faith and even I don’t discuss anything that may hurt her again…. Then from that day I decided I will only tell people who understand me about my faith…. All friends I made after Dedaar don’t know about my past so they don’t bother to discuss my past.

So shams here is a mother who just gave me food and shelter for 8 month she couldn’t understand me n my faith. My mother who carried me for 9 months how will she bare losing her only child and how can I explain her about my faith…… how can I justify myself when I face ALLAH after my death… I can’t see tears in anyone eyes that to cause of me… I heart of my mother and my family…. Do u mean I should break there heart…. Left them crying… Imam is helping so many in third worlds to get back smiles on faces ppl who hardly know Imam and His followers. Do u want me to leave my parent crying. As per me I am not so great to have a holy Dedaar of imam… if something great I have that I should be proud off… is my mother who Faith in Allah has given me His Dedaar and show me true Path.

I have to be silent and when imam will he will let everything possible.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:44 am

zubair_mahamood wrote: Ya Ali Madaad shams,

I saw her crying it was something that I never dreamed. Then I turn back went to hospital. I said her sorry and she said me you are my kid how can you leave me like that. She also said I wasn’t able to believe that u left me… how can u do this zubair... I apologised.
Today I meet her as I used too… go to their place on weekend… Do Dua at her place she doesn’t talk about my faith and even I don’t discuss anything that may hurt her again…. Then from that day I decided I will only tell people who understand me about my faith…. All friends I made after Dedaar don’t know about my past so they don’t bother to discuss my past.

So shams here is a mother who just gave me food and shelter for 8 month she couldn’t understand me n my faith. My mother who carried me for 9 months how will she bare losing her only child and how can I explain her about my faith…… how can I justify myself when I face ALLAH after my death… I can’t see tears in anyone eyes that to cause of me… I heart of my mother and my family…. Do u mean I should break there heart…. Left them crying… Imam is helping so many in third worlds to get back smiles on faces ppl who hardly know Imam and His followers. Do u want me to leave my parent crying. As per me I am not so great to have a holy Dedaar of imam… if something great I have that I should be proud off… is my mother who Faith in Allah has given me His Dedaar and show me true Path.

I have to be silent and when imam will he will let everything possible.

Ya Ali Madad Zubair.

One correction...i don't disbelieve you...all i am trying to do is help you understand my fanaticism around the imam and his farmans..and around Ismailism....and the tenets of ismailism as I understand them and follow them...and following the farmans of the imam...trust me when i say this..the majority of ismailies actually only pay lipservice to the farmans of the imam..so don't worry...you aren't alone..most of us put our convienence before conviction when it comes to the practise of our faith...
(sorry to be generalizing rest of the readers)....daily attendance in JK is down (unless there is deedar approaching..then attendance peaks)....wearing black clothes is a HUGE fashion statement in our community..disregarding farmans of the Imams.....i don't think (and this is my OPINION) majority of ismailies even manage to say dua on time...
forget following the other farmans such as helping fellow ismailies and humans..so trust me...i am not free of sin when throw stones at you.....but as a new ismaili ...or a potential convert..i want to alert you to what ismailism is...(in my view)..this isn't an easy path..it is a path of total submission...total submission to the IMAM...to his word..to his will..to his farmans....i am an ismaili 24x7....365 days a year..366 every leap year...

What you have stated above is that you will declare yourself to be an ismaili when it doesn't inconvienence others...when it doesn't hurt others...

sorry it doesn't work that way..
no offense to the lady that took care of you...think about why did she take care of you? for you as you the person..regardless of caste, creed or faith...or did she take care of you as a fellow Sunni Muslim?...and now that you are an ismaili..you are persona non grata?

Being an ismaili is nothing to hide or be ashamed of....why hide it? are you not proud to be a follower of the imam?

If they truly care about you..then it shouldn't matter to them whether you are a christian or a muslim or a jew....
it is YOU...that they should care about...not your faith...

you apologized to her for becoming an ismaili...why? did you do something wrong? did you feel guilty? i understand that she was hurt...but ..you can't apologize for what you believe in....

With Ya Ali Madad.

Shams

zubair_mahamood · Post by **zubair_mahamood** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:09 am

ShamsB wrote:you apologized to her for becoming an ismaili...why? did you do something wrong? did you feel guilty? i understand that she was hurt...but ..you can't apologize for what you believe in....

Shams

Ya Ali Madaad

I apologised her not for being Ismaili but for being rude to her. I apologised her for deciding not to have any relation with her. She accepts me today with my faith.

All (Muslims or Non Muslims) think that they are on right path. When a mother gives a child her faith and believes she expects him to follow it as she thinks by follow this path my child will be safe. I am following my mother but not according to her expectations that what made the lady hurt.

We believe in Allah without seeing Allah but we need proofs to support our faith. I don’t have any proof of Imam except myself and Imam. Most of the people I meet have said Ismailies are Non Muslims but I don’t care about them. More than 90 percent of world population do not believe in Imam, we don’t talk to them or we don’t even encourage Conversions. Declaration of Prophet Muhammad at Gadir in book and other declaration are material proof. Reality is that neither u nor me were present 1400 yrs ago expect Allah. Neither u no I can give proof except Him. We follow what our parent taught us and I am following what Allah has taught me and if someone asks y I am following… I don’t have a proof that’s what makes me helpless… I can’t explain ppl but I explain my faith to ppl who understand me… all my Sunni friend with whom is discussed Imam and His Dedaar advised me to Follow him if I believe him and there is not even a dent in our relationship.

In 16months I feel I have lived 1400 yrs because I got to know reality of life. The main difference between yes and no. I thank Allah for this… My only worry or quest is Why Imam has down such a big favour to me…. It makes me think y he selected me? It makes me think who am I? What doesn’t he want from me?

They are many in this world, Who talk wrong or think wrong about him… but when I thought wrong about him…. He was standing in Front of me by saying “I am not wrong” and took me into his arms……… why did he do that… why did he reply me…. Why doesn’t he reply others…. I have lakhs of questions….

U know shams unlike other Ismailies I don’t go to night school to learn Dua… no one explained me…. When I learn Dua no even an Ismaili was with me but I learn it. When other Ismaili met me they were surprised. I don’t remember numbers and names. It took me not even a day to memorize 49 names of Imam… they just came like that….. Do u think I can explain Sunnis about this no I don’t think…….. its Imam who can and he know when is best time and place to explain… he did explain it to my mom and so I hope if he wills he will explain everyone about my faith.

I didnt want to discuss my personal life but i have seen ismailies losing faith. thats y i decided to tell everyone about me and imam. thts y i share my experiences on net....

Shah Je Dedaar
zubair

www.ismaili.net

NAMAZ

Re: NAMAAZ

Re: NAMAAZ

Namaz