Star_munir, Yes there is a farman of S.M.S that the Quran is not !00% copied from original.. See farman #20, page no.63 & 64 of Kalam-e-Imam-e-Mubin Part 1.
Another enquiry regarding farman for 313 momin, Please see farman #16 page no. 48 of KIM part 1.
Regarding Drinking, there are so many farmans, See farman #9 page no 28,29 and 30. Farman #7 page no24 &25. Farman #21 page no 65 of KIM Part 1
Ragarding sex before marriage, see farman # 21 page no 65 of KIM part 1.
Jelaluddin Rumi
-
alinizar313
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:17 pm
-
alinizar313
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:17 pm
St. Francis of Assisi
While Rumi is being discussed as a disciple of Shamsh Tabriz, it might be of interest to know that St. Francis of Assisi, the most beloved saint of the Western world, was in contact with Shamsh Tabriz during the phase of his life when he spent some time in Damascus.
hi. is the Kalam-e-Imam-e-Mubin on this website? If not, does anyone know where I can get a copy of it? Thanks!Star_munir, Yes there is a farman of S.M.S that the Quran is not !00% copied from original.. See farman #20, page no.63 & 64 of Kalam-e-Imam-e-Mubin Part 1.
Another enquiry regarding farman for 313 momin, Please see farman #16 page no. 48 of KIM part 1.
Regarding Drinking, there are so many farmans, See farman #9 page no 28,29 and 30. Farman #7 page no24 &25. Farman #21 page no 65 of KIM Part 1
Ragarding sex before marriage, see farman # 21 page no 65 of KIM part 1.
I just stumbled on to this web page by DOS worth reading....
Persian Poet Rumi Conquers America
Translator Coleman Barks travels to Rumi's homeland
By Steve Holgate
Washington File Special Correspondent
Washington – He is the most popular poet in the United States. Barely known here only a decade ago, classes on his work have sprouted up on university campuses throughout the country. Community lectures and public readings of his poetry are announced in the cultural sections of newspapers in virtually every major American city. In perhaps the ultimate measure of his celebrity, a group of movie stars and singers has made a recording of his poems.
read more>
http://usinfo.state.gov/sa/Archive/2005 ... 95802.html
Persian Poet Rumi Conquers America
Translator Coleman Barks travels to Rumi's homeland
By Steve Holgate
Washington File Special Correspondent
Washington – He is the most popular poet in the United States. Barely known here only a decade ago, classes on his work have sprouted up on university campuses throughout the country. Community lectures and public readings of his poetry are announced in the cultural sections of newspapers in virtually every major American city. In perhaps the ultimate measure of his celebrity, a group of movie stars and singers has made a recording of his poems.
read more>
http://usinfo.state.gov/sa/Archive/2005 ... 95802.html
-
zubair_mahamood
- Posts: 238
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:12 pm
- Contact:
Being the 800th anniversary of the birth of Rumi there is extensive coverage under:
http://www.beliefnet.com/rumimeditation ... mc_id=NL44
You know you've touched a lot of lives when your 800th birthday is celebrated around the world. Sufi poet Mevlana Jellaluddin--best known as Rumi--is beloved by people of many faiths for his ecstatic, almost infatuated devotion to God. His eloquent longing seems to get at the very heart of love. Born September 30, 1207, the spiritual poet's global popularity has inspired the United Nations agency UNESCO to deem 2007 "The Year of Rumi."
http://www.beliefnet.com/rumimeditation ... mc_id=NL44
You know you've touched a lot of lives when your 800th birthday is celebrated around the world. Sufi poet Mevlana Jellaluddin--best known as Rumi--is beloved by people of many faiths for his ecstatic, almost infatuated devotion to God. His eloquent longing seems to get at the very heart of love. Born September 30, 1207, the spiritual poet's global popularity has inspired the United Nations agency UNESCO to deem 2007 "The Year of Rumi."
Rumi remembered
By Saeed Taji Farouky
Jalal ad-din Muhammad Rumi
13th-century mystic poet and theologian
Lived: 1207-1273
Born in Balkh, in modern Afghanistan, but spent most of his life in Anatolia
Major work: Masnavi-ye Manavi - six volumes of poems about man's search for God. The work is held in high regard by Sufi Muslims
Iran has celebrated the 800th birthday of Jalal ad-din Muhammad Rumi, the poet and spiritual leader famous across much of central and western Asia, with a week-long conference in the cities of Tehran, Khoy and Tabriz.
But scholars say that political pressures and the increasing commercialisation of Sufism, the mystical strand of Islam Rumi so heavily influenced, threaten to overshadow the poet's message of universal love and tolerance.
According to Persian tradition, Rumi is the insan-e kamil, or the perfected human being.
It is his belief in and struggle for unity - bringing together the created and the creator through music, dance and art - that has transcended all religions and elevated his works to international acclaim.
In Iran, Rumi is a household name. Many of his poems were written in Persian, and his poetry is so well respected it is recited on state radio during Ramadan.
The Iranian government also regularly hosts events where the poet is celebrated and promoted as a Persian icon.
But Nihat Tsolak, director and founder of Caravansary, a cultural group that organises Rumi-related events and festivals in London, is suspicious of the Islamic Republic's promotion of the anniversary this year.
"The Iranians seem to be using Rumi's celebrity for their own publicity," he told Al Jazeera.
Tsolak explains that beyond the literary celebrations, Iran has for the past several years maintained an uneasy relationship with Sufism.
Mohammad Reza Jozi, a research associate in philosophy and theology at London's Institute of Ismaili Studies, believes that there are divisions within the ruling clergy in Iran on how to deal with the Sufi minority.
He told Al Jazeera: "Part of the Iranian clergy opposes Sufism. Others support it, but they never say openly that they are Sufis."
Sufis in Iran
Iran's constitution permits the formation of "religious societies ... pertaining to one of the recognised religious minorities", on the condition they "do not violate ... the basis of the Islamic republic".
But Freedom House, an independent US-based organisation that tracks civil liberties around the globe, wrote in its 2007 report on Iran that "discrimination and harassment against Sufi Muslims has increased" following the election of Mahmud Ahmadinejad, Iran's president, in 2005.
Followers of Sufi groups have recently reported being fired from their jobs, enduring discrimination by state agencies and facing increased restrictions on their literature and worship.
In a high-profile case in October 2006, 300 state security forces surrounded the home of Nurali Tabandeh, a Sufi sheikh in Gonabad, northeastern Iran, prohibiting an annual Sufi pilgrimage to his house.
The Iranian embassy in London would not fully comment about the country's treatment of Sufis, but a diplomatic spokesperson there told Al Jazeera "everything is just ... allegations".
The Iranian Heritage Foundation - a non-political UK-based charity - also denied that Sufis are persecuted in Iran.
The Freedom House allegations "appear to be unfounded", it told Al Jazeera in a statement.
But Jozi believes that Rumi's universal approach to Islam interminably clashes with the more conservative state clergy in Iran, just as Rumi himself clashed with the religious establishment in 13th-century Turkey.
"Sufis claim that they know the reality, the truth, teachings of the Quran and the prophet... The position someone like Rumi holds is beyond official creed," he said.
Cultural icon
In Turkey, as in Iran, Rumi has become a ubiquitous and valuable cultural icon.
The whirling dervishes of the Mevlevi Sufi order, which is most closely associated with Rumi, and whose signature spinning ceremony was formalised by his son Sultan Veled, feature prominently in Turkish tourism campaigns.
However, all Sufi sects remain outlawed since Kamal Ataturk, the founding father of modern Turkey, implemented a strict secularisation programme in the 1920s.
Sufi groups were considered reactionary political groups for resisting the change.
Recently, the Turkish authorities have begun to tolerate - though unofficially - a resurgence in Sufism, and have virtually endorsed the Mevlevi order.
A spokesperson at the Turkish embassy in London told Al Jazeera: "The Mevlevis have not been legalised, there is no law saying the Mevlevi are free to function. It's just tolerance extended to them by the state, acceptance that they are not a reactionary force."
'Pop culture'
Nevertheless, Tsolak is concerned that the whirling dervishes have lost their true significance and pander to tourist curiosities.
"There are a lot of public relations behind it by the Turkish government ... [people] see whirling dervishes as a bit of a circus, there's a curiosity about it, but it doesn't really go further than that."
He worries that Rumi's current popularity is merely a fad and the superficial "pop culture" following he has attained is obscuring the poet's message.
Jozi agrees. "Rumi has become fashionable and this is a very unfortunate event. The more he becomes fashionable the more he is forgotten.
"If a great philosopher becomes popular, it means either his philosophy is superficial, or has become superficial," he said.
Iranian musician Shahram Nazeri, one of the world's leading performers of Rumi poetry, is also uncomfortable with the "pop culture" status accorded to the mystic poet's works.
When told that an Iranian rap group and heavy metal band - both claiming inspiration from Rumi -were involved in celebrations to commemorate Rumi's legacy in London on October 15, Nazeri told Al Jazeera: "There are people who may not have all the qualifications to actually execute a poem."
Nazeri, who was recently awarded the Legion d'Honneur, France's highest cultural accolade, for more than 30 years of work dedicated to the poet, believes careful schooling and training is required before tackling Rumi's works.
"To do justice to Rumi's lifetime contributions - these things cannot be taken so lightly."
Troubled region
Despite the poet's popularity in Europe and North America, Rumi's philosophies encouraging a unified humanity seem to have fallen on deaf ears in the region which birthed him.
Jozi believes that because Rumi always existed on the fringes and directly challenged the authorities of his day, his philosophy can hardly be expected to penetrate the political establishments in Central and Western Asia.
"Sufism as a social trend always existed on the margin of society - cut off from political turmoil and changes ... no Sufi saint ever influenced politics," he said.
Rumi was a very secluded man, he adds, with no interest in spreading his own universal philosophy. It was up to his followers to find the answers themselves.
Nazeri, too, cautions against turning to the poet for answers to socio-political woes, points out that it takes great effort to turn philosophy into reality.
He told Al Jazeera: "His thoughts would definitely have an impact on the struggle for peace. What it needs is work. It needs to be presented in a way that can get across to the masses.
"There are still parts of him that are too early to digest, in so many ways."
Banned by the Taliban
In Afghanistan, unlike Iran and Turkey, Rumi's poetry has fallen prey to ethnic and political divisions.
Dr Nooralhaq Nasimi, head of London's Afghan Community Organisation, told Al Jazeera that while Rumi was well known among Farsi and Dari speakers in Afghanistan, his work was frowned upon by the country's Pashtu-speaking leaders, which included the Taliban.
Pashtun tribes have effectively ruled Afghanistan for the past 250 years and have discouraged scholarly research into Rumi's philosophies.
"No significant book about Rumi has been written by Afghan scholars," Jozi told Al Jazeera.
Rumi's popularity also suffered under the Taliban government, which banned music, concerts and recitals through which much of Rumi's work is usually disseminated.
The ban directly challenged Rumi's belief that music, poetry and dancing can be used as a means of spiritual and physical worship of God's divinity.
As a result, Rumi's legacy in Afghanistan has been restricted to the oral tradition, rather than the stuff of academia, literature or music.
"Most of [Rumi's] poems are being kept in the heart of the people," Nasimi says.
Source: Al Jazeera
By Saeed Taji Farouky
Jalal ad-din Muhammad Rumi
13th-century mystic poet and theologian
Lived: 1207-1273
Born in Balkh, in modern Afghanistan, but spent most of his life in Anatolia
Major work: Masnavi-ye Manavi - six volumes of poems about man's search for God. The work is held in high regard by Sufi Muslims
Iran has celebrated the 800th birthday of Jalal ad-din Muhammad Rumi, the poet and spiritual leader famous across much of central and western Asia, with a week-long conference in the cities of Tehran, Khoy and Tabriz.
But scholars say that political pressures and the increasing commercialisation of Sufism, the mystical strand of Islam Rumi so heavily influenced, threaten to overshadow the poet's message of universal love and tolerance.
According to Persian tradition, Rumi is the insan-e kamil, or the perfected human being.
It is his belief in and struggle for unity - bringing together the created and the creator through music, dance and art - that has transcended all religions and elevated his works to international acclaim.
In Iran, Rumi is a household name. Many of his poems were written in Persian, and his poetry is so well respected it is recited on state radio during Ramadan.
The Iranian government also regularly hosts events where the poet is celebrated and promoted as a Persian icon.
But Nihat Tsolak, director and founder of Caravansary, a cultural group that organises Rumi-related events and festivals in London, is suspicious of the Islamic Republic's promotion of the anniversary this year.
"The Iranians seem to be using Rumi's celebrity for their own publicity," he told Al Jazeera.
Tsolak explains that beyond the literary celebrations, Iran has for the past several years maintained an uneasy relationship with Sufism.
Mohammad Reza Jozi, a research associate in philosophy and theology at London's Institute of Ismaili Studies, believes that there are divisions within the ruling clergy in Iran on how to deal with the Sufi minority.
He told Al Jazeera: "Part of the Iranian clergy opposes Sufism. Others support it, but they never say openly that they are Sufis."
Sufis in Iran
Iran's constitution permits the formation of "religious societies ... pertaining to one of the recognised religious minorities", on the condition they "do not violate ... the basis of the Islamic republic".
But Freedom House, an independent US-based organisation that tracks civil liberties around the globe, wrote in its 2007 report on Iran that "discrimination and harassment against Sufi Muslims has increased" following the election of Mahmud Ahmadinejad, Iran's president, in 2005.
Followers of Sufi groups have recently reported being fired from their jobs, enduring discrimination by state agencies and facing increased restrictions on their literature and worship.
In a high-profile case in October 2006, 300 state security forces surrounded the home of Nurali Tabandeh, a Sufi sheikh in Gonabad, northeastern Iran, prohibiting an annual Sufi pilgrimage to his house.
The Iranian embassy in London would not fully comment about the country's treatment of Sufis, but a diplomatic spokesperson there told Al Jazeera "everything is just ... allegations".
The Iranian Heritage Foundation - a non-political UK-based charity - also denied that Sufis are persecuted in Iran.
The Freedom House allegations "appear to be unfounded", it told Al Jazeera in a statement.
But Jozi believes that Rumi's universal approach to Islam interminably clashes with the more conservative state clergy in Iran, just as Rumi himself clashed with the religious establishment in 13th-century Turkey.
"Sufis claim that they know the reality, the truth, teachings of the Quran and the prophet... The position someone like Rumi holds is beyond official creed," he said.
Cultural icon
In Turkey, as in Iran, Rumi has become a ubiquitous and valuable cultural icon.
The whirling dervishes of the Mevlevi Sufi order, which is most closely associated with Rumi, and whose signature spinning ceremony was formalised by his son Sultan Veled, feature prominently in Turkish tourism campaigns.
However, all Sufi sects remain outlawed since Kamal Ataturk, the founding father of modern Turkey, implemented a strict secularisation programme in the 1920s.
Sufi groups were considered reactionary political groups for resisting the change.
Recently, the Turkish authorities have begun to tolerate - though unofficially - a resurgence in Sufism, and have virtually endorsed the Mevlevi order.
A spokesperson at the Turkish embassy in London told Al Jazeera: "The Mevlevis have not been legalised, there is no law saying the Mevlevi are free to function. It's just tolerance extended to them by the state, acceptance that they are not a reactionary force."
'Pop culture'
Nevertheless, Tsolak is concerned that the whirling dervishes have lost their true significance and pander to tourist curiosities.
"There are a lot of public relations behind it by the Turkish government ... [people] see whirling dervishes as a bit of a circus, there's a curiosity about it, but it doesn't really go further than that."
He worries that Rumi's current popularity is merely a fad and the superficial "pop culture" following he has attained is obscuring the poet's message.
Jozi agrees. "Rumi has become fashionable and this is a very unfortunate event. The more he becomes fashionable the more he is forgotten.
"If a great philosopher becomes popular, it means either his philosophy is superficial, or has become superficial," he said.
Iranian musician Shahram Nazeri, one of the world's leading performers of Rumi poetry, is also uncomfortable with the "pop culture" status accorded to the mystic poet's works.
When told that an Iranian rap group and heavy metal band - both claiming inspiration from Rumi -were involved in celebrations to commemorate Rumi's legacy in London on October 15, Nazeri told Al Jazeera: "There are people who may not have all the qualifications to actually execute a poem."
Nazeri, who was recently awarded the Legion d'Honneur, France's highest cultural accolade, for more than 30 years of work dedicated to the poet, believes careful schooling and training is required before tackling Rumi's works.
"To do justice to Rumi's lifetime contributions - these things cannot be taken so lightly."
Troubled region
Despite the poet's popularity in Europe and North America, Rumi's philosophies encouraging a unified humanity seem to have fallen on deaf ears in the region which birthed him.
Jozi believes that because Rumi always existed on the fringes and directly challenged the authorities of his day, his philosophy can hardly be expected to penetrate the political establishments in Central and Western Asia.
"Sufism as a social trend always existed on the margin of society - cut off from political turmoil and changes ... no Sufi saint ever influenced politics," he said.
Rumi was a very secluded man, he adds, with no interest in spreading his own universal philosophy. It was up to his followers to find the answers themselves.
Nazeri, too, cautions against turning to the poet for answers to socio-political woes, points out that it takes great effort to turn philosophy into reality.
He told Al Jazeera: "His thoughts would definitely have an impact on the struggle for peace. What it needs is work. It needs to be presented in a way that can get across to the masses.
"There are still parts of him that are too early to digest, in so many ways."
Banned by the Taliban
In Afghanistan, unlike Iran and Turkey, Rumi's poetry has fallen prey to ethnic and political divisions.
Dr Nooralhaq Nasimi, head of London's Afghan Community Organisation, told Al Jazeera that while Rumi was well known among Farsi and Dari speakers in Afghanistan, his work was frowned upon by the country's Pashtu-speaking leaders, which included the Taliban.
Pashtun tribes have effectively ruled Afghanistan for the past 250 years and have discouraged scholarly research into Rumi's philosophies.
"No significant book about Rumi has been written by Afghan scholars," Jozi told Al Jazeera.
Rumi's popularity also suffered under the Taliban government, which banned music, concerts and recitals through which much of Rumi's work is usually disseminated.
The ban directly challenged Rumi's belief that music, poetry and dancing can be used as a means of spiritual and physical worship of God's divinity.
As a result, Rumi's legacy in Afghanistan has been restricted to the oral tradition, rather than the stuff of academia, literature or music.
"Most of [Rumi's] poems are being kept in the heart of the people," Nasimi says.
Source: Al Jazeera
Cinema: Islamic poet to be celebrated in new film
Rome, 24 Oct. (AKI) - Rumi, the famous 13th century Islamic poet and mystic, will be featured in a new 25 million dollar film production to be produced in a joint venture between Italy and the United Arab Emirates.
It's one of the major deals to have emerged in 'The Business Street', the space set aside for international film producers and others at this year's Rome Film Festival.
In the last few years, several proposals have been considered for a movie about the life of the much beloved Sufi poet, who is well known in Europe and the US. More than 800 years after his death, his Persian poetry remains popular from Turkey to India.
Now a new Italian company, Istar Production, has reached an agreement with Dubai's D-Seven Motion Pictures to make the film.
The choice of the Dubai company is part of a strategy which aims to make the Emirates a hot new location for movie production in the Persian Gulf, offering capital and infrastructure for international filmmakers.
D-Seven Motion Pictures is headed by Nayla al Khaja, UAE's first independent female film director and producer.
Muzaffar Ali, a famous Indian filmmaker will direct the film. Igor Uboldi from Istar said the choice of an Indian director was appropriate because it was one of the countries where the 'cult' of Rumi survived. It also coincided with the Rome Film Festival's focus on Indian movies this year.
The film project appears to be connected with UNESCO's Rumi Year, declared to commemorate the poet's 800th birthday.
The film has been presented to Turkish institutions with a view to shooting in Turkey and has received formal support from UNESCO.
"It will be an international production to tell the story of a poet that after 8 centuries still inspires us," said Uboldi.
"At a time when Islam is at the centre of turmoil and misconceptions, Rumi opens the doors of a world where Islam always means love, never hatred".
Source:
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Cu ... 1468785883
PS: Here's an excerpt about Muzaffir Ali .....
From 2001 he initiated an annual international Sufi Music Festival, Jahan e Khusaru, in Delhi, dedicated to the 13th century mystic poet Hazrat Amir Khusrau. In this festival singers and musicians from different parts of the world and India participate creating a new genre of world Sufi music. In 2004 he created a Rumi Foundation with a vision to promote Global Oneness, bridging the east west divide.
Muzaffar has a vision to reinvent film making out of India, to create a global cinema of peace and to bring finest of world talent together to realize his dream. For this reason he has chosen the subject after his heart, the life and message of Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi, the 13th century mystic poet who is the largest read poet in the west. He is working on an international feature film, Rumi, the Fire of Love, which will be a collaborative effort with the worlds most acknowledged technicians like Director of Cinematography - Vittorio Storaro, Production Designer - Eugenio Zanetti, Costume Designer - Mary McFadden and subject, script and communication consultants and experts Kabir Helminski, Shama Zaidi and Dr. Deepak Chopra. The film should be ready for release in 2008, in time for 800 years of Rumi’s birth anniversary. The film designed for spiritual seekers will have the most expansive and extensive market around the world. With a passion for spiritual music and poetry along with a visual eye as his forte, the film is bound to have a lasting impact on viewers.
Source: http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/clubs/indi ... enDocument
For those interested in reading more about Muzaffir Ali, here's the link to his website
Rome, 24 Oct. (AKI) - Rumi, the famous 13th century Islamic poet and mystic, will be featured in a new 25 million dollar film production to be produced in a joint venture between Italy and the United Arab Emirates.
It's one of the major deals to have emerged in 'The Business Street', the space set aside for international film producers and others at this year's Rome Film Festival.
In the last few years, several proposals have been considered for a movie about the life of the much beloved Sufi poet, who is well known in Europe and the US. More than 800 years after his death, his Persian poetry remains popular from Turkey to India.
Now a new Italian company, Istar Production, has reached an agreement with Dubai's D-Seven Motion Pictures to make the film.
The choice of the Dubai company is part of a strategy which aims to make the Emirates a hot new location for movie production in the Persian Gulf, offering capital and infrastructure for international filmmakers.
D-Seven Motion Pictures is headed by Nayla al Khaja, UAE's first independent female film director and producer.
Muzaffar Ali, a famous Indian filmmaker will direct the film. Igor Uboldi from Istar said the choice of an Indian director was appropriate because it was one of the countries where the 'cult' of Rumi survived. It also coincided with the Rome Film Festival's focus on Indian movies this year.
The film project appears to be connected with UNESCO's Rumi Year, declared to commemorate the poet's 800th birthday.
The film has been presented to Turkish institutions with a view to shooting in Turkey and has received formal support from UNESCO.
"It will be an international production to tell the story of a poet that after 8 centuries still inspires us," said Uboldi.
"At a time when Islam is at the centre of turmoil and misconceptions, Rumi opens the doors of a world where Islam always means love, never hatred".
Source:
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Cu ... 1468785883
PS: Here's an excerpt about Muzaffir Ali .....
From 2001 he initiated an annual international Sufi Music Festival, Jahan e Khusaru, in Delhi, dedicated to the 13th century mystic poet Hazrat Amir Khusrau. In this festival singers and musicians from different parts of the world and India participate creating a new genre of world Sufi music. In 2004 he created a Rumi Foundation with a vision to promote Global Oneness, bridging the east west divide.
Muzaffar has a vision to reinvent film making out of India, to create a global cinema of peace and to bring finest of world talent together to realize his dream. For this reason he has chosen the subject after his heart, the life and message of Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi, the 13th century mystic poet who is the largest read poet in the west. He is working on an international feature film, Rumi, the Fire of Love, which will be a collaborative effort with the worlds most acknowledged technicians like Director of Cinematography - Vittorio Storaro, Production Designer - Eugenio Zanetti, Costume Designer - Mary McFadden and subject, script and communication consultants and experts Kabir Helminski, Shama Zaidi and Dr. Deepak Chopra. The film should be ready for release in 2008, in time for 800 years of Rumi’s birth anniversary. The film designed for spiritual seekers will have the most expansive and extensive market around the world. With a passion for spiritual music and poetry along with a visual eye as his forte, the film is bound to have a lasting impact on viewers.
Source: http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/clubs/indi ... enDocument
For those interested in reading more about Muzaffir Ali, here's the link to his website
Yam
To find out about life and work of Rumi visit
http://rumi.org.uk/works/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalal_ad-Din_Muhammad_Rumi
http://www.rumi.net/rumi_by_shiva.htm
http://www.khamush.com/life.htm
www.rumionfire.com/
Yam
yaamf_77@hotmail.com
To find out about life and work of Rumi visit
http://rumi.org.uk/works/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalal_ad-Din_Muhammad_Rumi
http://www.rumi.net/rumi_by_shiva.htm
http://www.khamush.com/life.htm
www.rumionfire.com/
Yam
yaamf_77@hotmail.com
"Sufism may be powerful antidote to Islamic extremism"
by Jane Lampman ("Christian Science Monitor," December 5, 2007)
Washington, USA - Images of Islam have pervaded the news media in recent years, but one aspect of the faith has gotten little attention - Islamic spirituality. Yet thousands in America and millions in the Muslim world have embarked on the spiritual path called Sufism, or the Sufi way. Some see its appeal as the most promising hope for countering the rise of
extremism in Islam.
In recent weeks, celebrations in cities on several continents have marked the "International Year of Rumi." Sept. 30 was the 800th anniversary of the birth of Muslim mystic Jelaluddin Rumi, who is a towering figure in Sufi literature and, paradoxically, the bestselling poet in the United States over the past decade.
In the West, Sufism has appealed to seekers attracted by its disciplined
spiritual practices as well as its respect for all faiths and emphasis
on universal love.
"I was searching, and the writings struck me - particularly the poetry,"
says Llew Smith, a TV producer in Boston who has joined a Sufi order.
"It's direct and consistent about turning you away from the self, but
also being connected deeply to the Divine and to other people."
Across the Muslim world, Sufism has been an influential force throughout
Islamic history, though it has frequently come under attack by more
orthodox Muslims. Some consider it an Islamic heresy because Sufis go
beyond the faith's basic tenets and pursue a direct union with God.
Many Muslims today, however, see the spiritual tradition as the potential answer to the extremism that has hijacked the faith and misrepresented it to the world.
"In the Islamic world, Sufism is the most powerful antidote to the
religious radicalism called fundamentalism as well as the most important
source for responding to the challenges posed by modernism," says Seyyed Hossein Nasr, professor of Islamic studies at George Washington
University in Washington, D.C.
Dr. Nasr has written a new book, "The Garden of Truth," to present Sufi
teaching in contemporary language.
"Its influence is immense," Nasr adds. "Sufism has kept alive the inner
quality of ethics and spiritual virtues, rather than a rigid morality
... and it provides access to knowledge of the divine reality," which
affects all other aspects of one's life.
But Sufi practice faces intense pressures in Islam's internal struggle.
"What the Western world is not seeing," says Akbar Ahmed, a renowned
Pakistani anthropologist who teaches at American University in
Washington, "is that there are three distinct models in play in the
Muslim world: modernism, which reflects globalization, materialism, and
a consumer society; the literalists, who are reacting, sometimes
violently, against the West and globalization; and the Sufis, who reject
the search for power and wealth" in favor of a more spiritual path.
Feeling under siege, the average Muslim today is in turmoil, Dr. Ahmed says. To which of these answers will he or she turn? He believes that the spiritual hunger is deep and resonates widely.
Puritanical reformers revile it
While Sufism has been persecuted in Saudi Arabia, it is thriving in such
places as Iran, Pakistan, and India outside the modernist cities, says
Ahmed, who traveled throughout the Muslim world in 2006. During a visit
to the Sufi shrine at Ajmer, India, he encountered a throng of thousands
worshiping there.
"Just last week, when former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif returned to
Pakistan, where did he go? To the Sufi shrine in Lahore," he adds.
But can Sufism influence or counter the political rise of the radicals?
Puritanical reformers call Sufis heretics. And modernizers have often
denigrated them. Kemal Ataturk, the founder of modern secular Turkey,
for instance, closed down the Sufi orders, including Rumi's Mevlevi
order.
Yet, according to a survey Ahmed took of some young people in Turkey
last year, their top choice as a role model is a Sufi intellectual,
Fetullah Gulen, who has built a large system of schools and is known for
his promotion of interfaith dialogue.
Sufis lead reform movements
Historically, Sufism has had greater impact in the Muslim world than
have Jewish and Christian mysticism in their communities, says Marcia
Hermansen, an expert on Sufism at Loyola University in Chicago.
Not only has it pervaded Islamic art, literature, music, and
architecture, but in the realm of political life, several Sufi orders
became ruling dynasties, reshaping the map of the Muslim world.
"Some of the greatest reform movements in the 19th century were carried
out by Sufis," says Nasr. "Amir Abd al-Kader, the national hero of Algeria, was a Sufi master."
No reliable statistics exist for numbers of Sufis practicing today, as
both Sunni and Shiite Muslims may also be Sufis. But many Sufi orders,
in which serious students follow a master teacher, have become
international in scope. (In the US, Sufi movements vary considerably,
and a few have taken on New Age elements and are not directly related to
Islam.)
Llew Smith joined the Nimatullahi Order, which has 10 houses of Sufism
in the US, but whose teacher - Dr. Javad Nubakhsh - resides in London.
Muhammad Nooraee, one of his students, came to the US from Iran 30 years ago and now acts as a spiritual counselor in the house in Boston's South End neighborhood. The local group gathers for meditation twice a week, which sometimes involves music or poetry.
The only requirement for an initiate is that he be a sincere seeker, to "feel thirsty for God," he says during an interview. "In Sufism, we call
it 'pain of seeking.' "
The initiate makes the confession of faith to Islam, "submitting your
heart to God," but no other rules are required. "The seeker now becomes
a disciple, and the teacher walks him or her through the path, what we
call tariqah," Mr. Nooraee says. It is a path toward the truth through
love, and involves techniques to get close to God.
"One technique involves how to meditate," he says, "focusing attentively
on the names of God and negating your ego; the second is service, how to
provide selfless service for others without any expectation of return.
Once the disciple does both, then he or she starts to experience God.
From then on, you see God with the inner eyes of the heart."
Contemplative dimension
Mr. Smith came to this order because he was moved by one of Dr.
Nubakhsh's books, and has stayed with it for 20 years. Growing up in a
very religious African-American family, he says he might have stayed
with Christianity had he found such a deep contemplative dimension that
enabled him to work with a teacher. He has visited and corresponds with
the master. Meditating with the group in Boston, he finds "a lot of
energy of support for the interior spiritual work we are striving to
do."
Of course, the real work begins when you go out into the world and live
it, and fail, and have to correct yourself, he says, with a laugh. But
it has changed his life.
"It's made me recognize how much of a veil the ego is, and how important
it is to set it aside," says the TV producer. "And when I get panicked
about the world, it has helped me find greater faith in humanity as a
manifestation of God."
A brief look at what Sufism teaches
In a new book, "The Garden of Truth," Seyyed Hossein Nasr presents the
teachings of Sufism in contemporary language, drawing on his experience
of more than 50 years of practice. The Sufi tradition, he says, contains
"a vast metaphysical and cosmological set of doctrines elaborated over a
long period...." Sufi metaphysics teach the Unity of God and the oneness
of being.
Some excerpts:
"Not only were we created by God, but we have the root of our existence
here and now in Him."
"In classical Sufism, the answer to the question what does it mean to be
human is contained fully in the doctrine of what is usually translated
as the Universal or Perfect Man ... [who] is like a mirror before God,
reflecting all His Names and Qualities, and is able to contemplate ...
God's creation through God's eyes."
Creation is renewed at every instant, according to Sufism's teaching,
and "the whole of the material universe, no matter how extended its
physical dimensions might be, is like a speck of dust before the
grandeur of the world of the Spirit."
by Jane Lampman ("Christian Science Monitor," December 5, 2007)
Washington, USA - Images of Islam have pervaded the news media in recent years, but one aspect of the faith has gotten little attention - Islamic spirituality. Yet thousands in America and millions in the Muslim world have embarked on the spiritual path called Sufism, or the Sufi way. Some see its appeal as the most promising hope for countering the rise of
extremism in Islam.
In recent weeks, celebrations in cities on several continents have marked the "International Year of Rumi." Sept. 30 was the 800th anniversary of the birth of Muslim mystic Jelaluddin Rumi, who is a towering figure in Sufi literature and, paradoxically, the bestselling poet in the United States over the past decade.
In the West, Sufism has appealed to seekers attracted by its disciplined
spiritual practices as well as its respect for all faiths and emphasis
on universal love.
"I was searching, and the writings struck me - particularly the poetry,"
says Llew Smith, a TV producer in Boston who has joined a Sufi order.
"It's direct and consistent about turning you away from the self, but
also being connected deeply to the Divine and to other people."
Across the Muslim world, Sufism has been an influential force throughout
Islamic history, though it has frequently come under attack by more
orthodox Muslims. Some consider it an Islamic heresy because Sufis go
beyond the faith's basic tenets and pursue a direct union with God.
Many Muslims today, however, see the spiritual tradition as the potential answer to the extremism that has hijacked the faith and misrepresented it to the world.
"In the Islamic world, Sufism is the most powerful antidote to the
religious radicalism called fundamentalism as well as the most important
source for responding to the challenges posed by modernism," says Seyyed Hossein Nasr, professor of Islamic studies at George Washington
University in Washington, D.C.
Dr. Nasr has written a new book, "The Garden of Truth," to present Sufi
teaching in contemporary language.
"Its influence is immense," Nasr adds. "Sufism has kept alive the inner
quality of ethics and spiritual virtues, rather than a rigid morality
... and it provides access to knowledge of the divine reality," which
affects all other aspects of one's life.
But Sufi practice faces intense pressures in Islam's internal struggle.
"What the Western world is not seeing," says Akbar Ahmed, a renowned
Pakistani anthropologist who teaches at American University in
Washington, "is that there are three distinct models in play in the
Muslim world: modernism, which reflects globalization, materialism, and
a consumer society; the literalists, who are reacting, sometimes
violently, against the West and globalization; and the Sufis, who reject
the search for power and wealth" in favor of a more spiritual path.
Feeling under siege, the average Muslim today is in turmoil, Dr. Ahmed says. To which of these answers will he or she turn? He believes that the spiritual hunger is deep and resonates widely.
Puritanical reformers revile it
While Sufism has been persecuted in Saudi Arabia, it is thriving in such
places as Iran, Pakistan, and India outside the modernist cities, says
Ahmed, who traveled throughout the Muslim world in 2006. During a visit
to the Sufi shrine at Ajmer, India, he encountered a throng of thousands
worshiping there.
"Just last week, when former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif returned to
Pakistan, where did he go? To the Sufi shrine in Lahore," he adds.
But can Sufism influence or counter the political rise of the radicals?
Puritanical reformers call Sufis heretics. And modernizers have often
denigrated them. Kemal Ataturk, the founder of modern secular Turkey,
for instance, closed down the Sufi orders, including Rumi's Mevlevi
order.
Yet, according to a survey Ahmed took of some young people in Turkey
last year, their top choice as a role model is a Sufi intellectual,
Fetullah Gulen, who has built a large system of schools and is known for
his promotion of interfaith dialogue.
Sufis lead reform movements
Historically, Sufism has had greater impact in the Muslim world than
have Jewish and Christian mysticism in their communities, says Marcia
Hermansen, an expert on Sufism at Loyola University in Chicago.
Not only has it pervaded Islamic art, literature, music, and
architecture, but in the realm of political life, several Sufi orders
became ruling dynasties, reshaping the map of the Muslim world.
"Some of the greatest reform movements in the 19th century were carried
out by Sufis," says Nasr. "Amir Abd al-Kader, the national hero of Algeria, was a Sufi master."
No reliable statistics exist for numbers of Sufis practicing today, as
both Sunni and Shiite Muslims may also be Sufis. But many Sufi orders,
in which serious students follow a master teacher, have become
international in scope. (In the US, Sufi movements vary considerably,
and a few have taken on New Age elements and are not directly related to
Islam.)
Llew Smith joined the Nimatullahi Order, which has 10 houses of Sufism
in the US, but whose teacher - Dr. Javad Nubakhsh - resides in London.
Muhammad Nooraee, one of his students, came to the US from Iran 30 years ago and now acts as a spiritual counselor in the house in Boston's South End neighborhood. The local group gathers for meditation twice a week, which sometimes involves music or poetry.
The only requirement for an initiate is that he be a sincere seeker, to "feel thirsty for God," he says during an interview. "In Sufism, we call
it 'pain of seeking.' "
The initiate makes the confession of faith to Islam, "submitting your
heart to God," but no other rules are required. "The seeker now becomes
a disciple, and the teacher walks him or her through the path, what we
call tariqah," Mr. Nooraee says. It is a path toward the truth through
love, and involves techniques to get close to God.
"One technique involves how to meditate," he says, "focusing attentively
on the names of God and negating your ego; the second is service, how to
provide selfless service for others without any expectation of return.
Once the disciple does both, then he or she starts to experience God.
From then on, you see God with the inner eyes of the heart."
Contemplative dimension
Mr. Smith came to this order because he was moved by one of Dr.
Nubakhsh's books, and has stayed with it for 20 years. Growing up in a
very religious African-American family, he says he might have stayed
with Christianity had he found such a deep contemplative dimension that
enabled him to work with a teacher. He has visited and corresponds with
the master. Meditating with the group in Boston, he finds "a lot of
energy of support for the interior spiritual work we are striving to
do."
Of course, the real work begins when you go out into the world and live
it, and fail, and have to correct yourself, he says, with a laugh. But
it has changed his life.
"It's made me recognize how much of a veil the ego is, and how important
it is to set it aside," says the TV producer. "And when I get panicked
about the world, it has helped me find greater faith in humanity as a
manifestation of God."
A brief look at what Sufism teaches
In a new book, "The Garden of Truth," Seyyed Hossein Nasr presents the
teachings of Sufism in contemporary language, drawing on his experience
of more than 50 years of practice. The Sufi tradition, he says, contains
"a vast metaphysical and cosmological set of doctrines elaborated over a
long period...." Sufi metaphysics teach the Unity of God and the oneness
of being.
Some excerpts:
"Not only were we created by God, but we have the root of our existence
here and now in Him."
"In classical Sufism, the answer to the question what does it mean to be
human is contained fully in the doctrine of what is usually translated
as the Universal or Perfect Man ... [who] is like a mirror before God,
reflecting all His Names and Qualities, and is able to contemplate ...
God's creation through God's eyes."
Creation is renewed at every instant, according to Sufism's teaching,
and "the whole of the material universe, no matter how extended its
physical dimensions might be, is like a speck of dust before the
grandeur of the world of the Spirit."
Mowlavi's life in Persian Paradise
Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:34:17
Iran's Press TV is to screen 'Persian Paradise' on Mowlavi
Press TV will screen the Persian Paradise, a 4-episode documentary, which focuses on the life of Iranian poet and mystic, Mowlavi.
The documentary will be aired on the occasion of the 800th birth anniversary of Mowlavi.
“Two episodes of the series are dedicated to Mowlavi and his influence on contemporary Western culture and art as well as his influence on prominent Western figures,” Farshad Fereshteh Hekmat, director of the Persian Paradise told Press TV.
“The other two will focus on Mowlavi and Shams Tabrizi, the poet's spiritual guide,” he added.
Hekmat said the claims that Mowlavi was a Turkish poet are completely baseless and the documentary will explore his life and work as an Iranian poet and mystic.
The English language documentary has been shot in Iran, Turkey, India and Europe.
NAT/JC/RE
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=35 ... =351020105
Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:34:17
Iran's Press TV is to screen 'Persian Paradise' on Mowlavi
Press TV will screen the Persian Paradise, a 4-episode documentary, which focuses on the life of Iranian poet and mystic, Mowlavi.
The documentary will be aired on the occasion of the 800th birth anniversary of Mowlavi.
“Two episodes of the series are dedicated to Mowlavi and his influence on contemporary Western culture and art as well as his influence on prominent Western figures,” Farshad Fereshteh Hekmat, director of the Persian Paradise told Press TV.
“The other two will focus on Mowlavi and Shams Tabrizi, the poet's spiritual guide,” he added.
Hekmat said the claims that Mowlavi was a Turkish poet are completely baseless and the documentary will explore his life and work as an Iranian poet and mystic.
The English language documentary has been shot in Iran, Turkey, India and Europe.
NAT/JC/RE
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=35 ... =351020105
-
zubair_mahamood
- Posts: 238
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:12 pm
- Contact:
Re: Question about Sham-z-Tabiz
I think this posting will help u..........From_Alamut wrote:Ya Ali Madad
I have had an argument with some of our Ismaili brothers in Jamatkhana about Shame-z-tabiz. They say that Sham-e-tabiz was not an Ismaili but he was only a Sufi Master and at the same time there was 3 shams(Pir Shams, Mowlana Imam Shamudain Mohammad(s.a) and Sham-z-tabiz). I said he was an Ismaili, but they disagree with me. They said if Shame-z-tabiz was an Ismaili then where is the PROVE, did his name mention in any Ismaili books, history Ismaili or Ganan? They also said if he was an Ismaili then why Rumi is not an Ismaili. He could have converted a lot of people into Ismailism faith if he was an Ismaili.
...Now, I need you guys help brothers and sisters. Please if you guys think that Sham-z-tabiz was an Ismaili SHOW ME THE COMPELET PROVE. PROVE TO ME HOW SHAM-Z-TABIZ WAS AN ISMAILI SO I can argue back.
Regard
Z Mnagib wrote:Tabrez was Ismaili. Rumi was not an Ismaili, he was the pupil of an Ismaili therefore strongly influence by Ismaili ideas.
Nagib
---------------------
"Rumi was not an Ismaili himself, but the murid of an Ismaili"
Sultan Muhammad Shah, First Ismailia Mission Conference, Dar es-Salam 20 July 1945
Last edited by zubair_mahamood on Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rumi, the movie
I fear that a film being made in Qatar about the Islamic mystic may gloss over some of the more interesting aspects of his life
Ali Eteraz guardian.co.uk, Sunday 16 August 2009
At this year's Cannes film festival it was revealed that the Qatar Foundation had pledged $25m for the production for a biopic of Rumi, the Muslim mystic and poet, who is perhaps the leading figure in Sufism and one of Islam's most important cultural ambassadors to the western world.
In 2002, Time magazine pointed out that "easily the most successful poetry book published in the west in the past decade" belonged to Rumi (his verses have even been recited by Madonna). Rumi's cultural influence goes beyond poetry, however. The famous "whirling dervishes" trace themselves back to the poet and he has even inspired Iranian ballet as well as a recent symphony project.
Rumi was born in central Asia at the beginning of the 13th century, during the time of the Mongol invasions. After starting out as a jurist and academic, his life was radically altered through an encounter with a travelling sage by the name of Shams al-Din Tabrizi, who imparted esoteric secrets to him. After an intense relationship between the two men, Shams disappeared, and in his grief Rumi became devoted to the Divine Beloved, producing exquisite works of moral wisdom until the end of his life a few decades later. Rumi's masterpiece, called the Masnavi, has been celebrated throughout the Muslim world and is sometimes referred to as the Persian Qur'an.
The film project is the brainchild of the Indian film-maker Muzaffar Ali, who directed the critically acclaimed film Umrao Jan (about a Muslim courtesan's search for love in the 19th century). He has also released a plethora of Sufi music by artists such as Abida Parveen.
For the film, Ali has teamed up with Oscar-winning screenwriter and director David Ward (Sleepless in Seattle) as well as the cinematographer Vittorio Storaro (Apocalypse Now) while new age guru Deepak Chopra has been brought in as script consultant.
It bears noting that until recently the Rumi project was faltering, as its previous sponsors in the United Arab Emirates decided to back out. The film was ultimately rescued by the Qatar Foundation, which is headed by the wife of the emir of Qatar, Sheikha Mohza.
The project raises some interesting questions. First, how will certain Muslim countries, and particularly the more puritanical religious elements, react to the movie? Will there be calls to ban or boycott the film, or will Qatar – home of Arab mainstays such as Qaradawi and al-Jazeera – have enough pull to quell such criticism?
Second, will western thinktanks, in their quest to appropriate all the creative elements of Islam to advance their own pet wars, turn into the film's cheerleaders and ensure that it becomes a flop?
Third is the issue of Rumi's duality. There have always been two versions of him: the universal Rumi (a sort of munificent and non-judgmental sage who transcends time, place and religion) and the historical Rumi who affirmed Islam to the exclusion of other religions. This tension, about how religions reconcile historical reality with liberal sentimentality, exists in today's Judaic and Christian art, but is most pronounced in Islam.
My sense is that this film, due to its corporate considerations, will gloss over the historical Rumi. That is a shame, because there is plenty in his actual historical life that would be of interest to the world today.
For example, Dr Hussein Rashid of Harvard University pointed out to me that Rumi's teacher, Shams al-Din, was probably an Ismaili. That one of the most revered individuals in Islam may have been influenced by someone from Islam's (ultra) minority sect is precisely the kind of stuff that the film should tease out, even if it does so with a nudge and a wink.
Also, Rumi was married to a woman named Gawhar Khatun, yet when anyone talks about his life, she gets no mention. That unwillingness to talk about Rumi's marital life is part of the reason many people tend to sexualise his relationship with Shams. Why not cast a strong female lead as Gawhar and really shake things up?
The other element of historical Rumi that will unfortunately be ignored is the way he used erotic ideas in his discussions about the sacred. This has been written about in detail by Dr Mahdi Tourage in an article entitled The Hermeneutics of Eroticism in the Poetry of Rumi. One example Tourage gives is of the way Rumi played on the words denoting the religious act of zikr, or remembrance, and the word zakr, which means penis. Rumi was also not averse to talking about hermaphrodites, menstruation and intercourse. Such anecdotes illustrate that Muslims in those days had a far greater tolerance of literary licence in religious discussions than they do now.
Finally, I think one of the most interesting things about Rumi's actual life was the impact that the Mongol invasion had on him. Rumi lived at a time when the Muslim world was being overrun by a war machine and the decadent rulers were unable to offer protection to their subjects. Men like Ibn Taymiya, who later inspired modern jihadists, were agitating for revolt and using Islamic scholarship in the service of vengeance. How a great Muslim figure like Rumi reacted to the violence of invasion would have significant meaning today.
Even if it falls short, though, having a mainstream film about Rumi produced by a brand new studio in the heart of the Muslim world is positive in itself.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... stic/print
I fear that a film being made in Qatar about the Islamic mystic may gloss over some of the more interesting aspects of his life
Ali Eteraz guardian.co.uk, Sunday 16 August 2009
At this year's Cannes film festival it was revealed that the Qatar Foundation had pledged $25m for the production for a biopic of Rumi, the Muslim mystic and poet, who is perhaps the leading figure in Sufism and one of Islam's most important cultural ambassadors to the western world.
In 2002, Time magazine pointed out that "easily the most successful poetry book published in the west in the past decade" belonged to Rumi (his verses have even been recited by Madonna). Rumi's cultural influence goes beyond poetry, however. The famous "whirling dervishes" trace themselves back to the poet and he has even inspired Iranian ballet as well as a recent symphony project.
Rumi was born in central Asia at the beginning of the 13th century, during the time of the Mongol invasions. After starting out as a jurist and academic, his life was radically altered through an encounter with a travelling sage by the name of Shams al-Din Tabrizi, who imparted esoteric secrets to him. After an intense relationship between the two men, Shams disappeared, and in his grief Rumi became devoted to the Divine Beloved, producing exquisite works of moral wisdom until the end of his life a few decades later. Rumi's masterpiece, called the Masnavi, has been celebrated throughout the Muslim world and is sometimes referred to as the Persian Qur'an.
The film project is the brainchild of the Indian film-maker Muzaffar Ali, who directed the critically acclaimed film Umrao Jan (about a Muslim courtesan's search for love in the 19th century). He has also released a plethora of Sufi music by artists such as Abida Parveen.
For the film, Ali has teamed up with Oscar-winning screenwriter and director David Ward (Sleepless in Seattle) as well as the cinematographer Vittorio Storaro (Apocalypse Now) while new age guru Deepak Chopra has been brought in as script consultant.
It bears noting that until recently the Rumi project was faltering, as its previous sponsors in the United Arab Emirates decided to back out. The film was ultimately rescued by the Qatar Foundation, which is headed by the wife of the emir of Qatar, Sheikha Mohza.
The project raises some interesting questions. First, how will certain Muslim countries, and particularly the more puritanical religious elements, react to the movie? Will there be calls to ban or boycott the film, or will Qatar – home of Arab mainstays such as Qaradawi and al-Jazeera – have enough pull to quell such criticism?
Second, will western thinktanks, in their quest to appropriate all the creative elements of Islam to advance their own pet wars, turn into the film's cheerleaders and ensure that it becomes a flop?
Third is the issue of Rumi's duality. There have always been two versions of him: the universal Rumi (a sort of munificent and non-judgmental sage who transcends time, place and religion) and the historical Rumi who affirmed Islam to the exclusion of other religions. This tension, about how religions reconcile historical reality with liberal sentimentality, exists in today's Judaic and Christian art, but is most pronounced in Islam.
My sense is that this film, due to its corporate considerations, will gloss over the historical Rumi. That is a shame, because there is plenty in his actual historical life that would be of interest to the world today.
For example, Dr Hussein Rashid of Harvard University pointed out to me that Rumi's teacher, Shams al-Din, was probably an Ismaili. That one of the most revered individuals in Islam may have been influenced by someone from Islam's (ultra) minority sect is precisely the kind of stuff that the film should tease out, even if it does so with a nudge and a wink.
Also, Rumi was married to a woman named Gawhar Khatun, yet when anyone talks about his life, she gets no mention. That unwillingness to talk about Rumi's marital life is part of the reason many people tend to sexualise his relationship with Shams. Why not cast a strong female lead as Gawhar and really shake things up?
The other element of historical Rumi that will unfortunately be ignored is the way he used erotic ideas in his discussions about the sacred. This has been written about in detail by Dr Mahdi Tourage in an article entitled The Hermeneutics of Eroticism in the Poetry of Rumi. One example Tourage gives is of the way Rumi played on the words denoting the religious act of zikr, or remembrance, and the word zakr, which means penis. Rumi was also not averse to talking about hermaphrodites, menstruation and intercourse. Such anecdotes illustrate that Muslims in those days had a far greater tolerance of literary licence in religious discussions than they do now.
Finally, I think one of the most interesting things about Rumi's actual life was the impact that the Mongol invasion had on him. Rumi lived at a time when the Muslim world was being overrun by a war machine and the decadent rulers were unable to offer protection to their subjects. Men like Ibn Taymiya, who later inspired modern jihadists, were agitating for revolt and using Islamic scholarship in the service of vengeance. How a great Muslim figure like Rumi reacted to the violence of invasion would have significant meaning today.
Even if it falls short, though, having a mainstream film about Rumi produced by a brand new studio in the heart of the Muslim world is positive in itself.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... stic/print
Rumi's Masnavi, part 3: Knowledge and certainty
Can learning lead to God? For Rumi, knowledge is always partial. The Sufi way, however, can provide a taste of true reality
Franklin Lewis guardian.co.uk, Monday 14 December 2009 12.05 GMT
Article historyThe sun itself is proof the sun exists!
Seek your proofs, but don't turn your face from it.
Masnavi 1: 116
Given that true reality (haqiqat) is obscured by forms and appearances, as we have seen, an epistemological question is inevitable: how reliable are intellect and logic as a means of discovering and knowing the real? Can we humans reach certainty about our knowledge and our beliefs? The basic answer for Rumi would be that God, the Real (haqq), reveals itself to humanity through the prophets. But this does not tell us whether we have understood and correctly interpreted the meaning of God's revelation; after all, there are different interpretations of the Qur'an and sects of Islam.
Your passions lead your reading of Qur'an
How base and bent you make the clear intent
Masnavi 1: 1081
The Islamic tradition Rumi inherited placed high value on the acquisition of knowledge, or "science" (‛ilm) through scholarship. A saying of the Prophet Muhammad stresses the importance of lifelong study, urging the faithful to "Seek out knowledge, even unto China." Religious scholars took the ultimate object of such knowledge to be understanding of the prescriptions of the Sharia, or the rules and laws for right living and conduct as set forth in the Qur'an and the sunna (the practice of the Prophet Muhammad). All of this is discoverable through study of the Qur'an, acquired knowledge of the hadith (written traditions about what the prophet said or did), and the application of established rules and principles of jurisprudence (fiqh). Rumi himself spent a good many years acquiring this religious knowledge, and did not disparage it, though he realised that even lifelong methodical study of religion cannot lead the believer to absolute certainty and via that, to salvation. Religious scholars may pursue knowledge for self-aggrandisement and delude themselves into thinking that with vast knowledge comes true understanding and rectitude. But, says Rumi, the fundamental roots of your interior faith and spirituality are of much greater moment than the various branches of jurisprudence and theology.
He knows countless chapters of the sciences
But that wrongdoer does not know his soul
He knows the properties of every essence
But can he tell his own essence from an ass?
'I know what is licit, what's illicit'
But what about your self? You cannot say
If you're licit or illiterate
...
You know religion's grounds and rules, and yet
Look to your own roots, are they sound or not?
Masnavi 3: 2648-56
He tells the humorous tale of an untutored boatman and a prideful grammarian. The grammarian asks the boatman if he knows Arabic grammar (a science that facilitates understanding the Qur'an). No? Well then, half your life is wasted! When the boat begins sinking in a whirlpool, the boatman asks if the grammarian knows how to swim. No? Then your whole life is wasted! (Masnavi 1: 2835-40).
Islamic civilisation under the Abbasids fostered the pursuit of other sciences as well, including medicine, mathematics, physics, astronomy, and philosophy. Greek philosophy was translated to Arabic and further developed by thinkers in the Muslim world, who adapted the tools of logic and the insights of neo-platonic and peripatetic philosophy to the intellectual questions of their own tradition. Some even proposed philosophy as a complementary rational system of knowledge to the metaphorical system of revealed religion. While admiring some of their logical tools, Muhammad al-Ghazali (d. 1111) considered the question and found the philosophers wanting. Ghazali isolated four competing epistemological claims to evaluate whether they could lead to certainty: philosophy; theology (as developed by Sunni Muslims); the doctrine in (particularly Ismaili) Shia Islam of authoritative interpretation by an infallible imam; and the mysticism of the Sufis. Ultimately, al-Ghazali dismisses the possibility of acquired knowledge and the rational intellect leading us to certainty, true understanding and right belief. He concludes that only experiential knowledge, the "tasting" or gnosis (ma‛rifa) of which the Sufis speak, can lead to certainty – but even that depends on self-purification, proper spiritual orientation, and divine grace. Rumi largely agrees:
The philosoph winds up through doubt, conjecture
In denial. Bash your head against the wall!
Masnavi 1: 3278
Far-sighted reason – I have tested it.
Henceforth, I'll make myself demented
Masnavi 2: 2332
Of course Rumi does acknowledge the value of human reason, and that intellect is a God-given faculty with real and useful applications. The trouble is that any individual possesses only partial intellect, and can never attain perfect knowledge through it. Only the universal intellect, identified with the prophets or saints, can attain that. Rumi illustrates this with the famous parable of the elephant – a tale told by al-Ghazali and Sana'i in the 12th century, though it can be traced all the way back to Buddhist scripture. Several people encounter an elephant for the first time in total darkness, touching different parts of the beast, groping for a rational conclusion about the reality they opaquely confront. Each come away with quite opposing ideas about the nature of the elephant, depending on whether he had touched the ear, the trunk, the back, the leg, or the tail. Only the light of universal intellect transcends their partial understandings to give a complete picture. This is why, for Rumi, true knowledge comes only through the Sufi path of following the prophet and the saints:
The Sufi's book's not writ in words and ink
It is nothing but a heart white as snow
Masnavi 2:159
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ophy-islam
Can learning lead to God? For Rumi, knowledge is always partial. The Sufi way, however, can provide a taste of true reality
Franklin Lewis guardian.co.uk, Monday 14 December 2009 12.05 GMT
Article historyThe sun itself is proof the sun exists!
Seek your proofs, but don't turn your face from it.
Masnavi 1: 116
Given that true reality (haqiqat) is obscured by forms and appearances, as we have seen, an epistemological question is inevitable: how reliable are intellect and logic as a means of discovering and knowing the real? Can we humans reach certainty about our knowledge and our beliefs? The basic answer for Rumi would be that God, the Real (haqq), reveals itself to humanity through the prophets. But this does not tell us whether we have understood and correctly interpreted the meaning of God's revelation; after all, there are different interpretations of the Qur'an and sects of Islam.
Your passions lead your reading of Qur'an
How base and bent you make the clear intent
Masnavi 1: 1081
The Islamic tradition Rumi inherited placed high value on the acquisition of knowledge, or "science" (‛ilm) through scholarship. A saying of the Prophet Muhammad stresses the importance of lifelong study, urging the faithful to "Seek out knowledge, even unto China." Religious scholars took the ultimate object of such knowledge to be understanding of the prescriptions of the Sharia, or the rules and laws for right living and conduct as set forth in the Qur'an and the sunna (the practice of the Prophet Muhammad). All of this is discoverable through study of the Qur'an, acquired knowledge of the hadith (written traditions about what the prophet said or did), and the application of established rules and principles of jurisprudence (fiqh). Rumi himself spent a good many years acquiring this religious knowledge, and did not disparage it, though he realised that even lifelong methodical study of religion cannot lead the believer to absolute certainty and via that, to salvation. Religious scholars may pursue knowledge for self-aggrandisement and delude themselves into thinking that with vast knowledge comes true understanding and rectitude. But, says Rumi, the fundamental roots of your interior faith and spirituality are of much greater moment than the various branches of jurisprudence and theology.
He knows countless chapters of the sciences
But that wrongdoer does not know his soul
He knows the properties of every essence
But can he tell his own essence from an ass?
'I know what is licit, what's illicit'
But what about your self? You cannot say
If you're licit or illiterate
...
You know religion's grounds and rules, and yet
Look to your own roots, are they sound or not?
Masnavi 3: 2648-56
He tells the humorous tale of an untutored boatman and a prideful grammarian. The grammarian asks the boatman if he knows Arabic grammar (a science that facilitates understanding the Qur'an). No? Well then, half your life is wasted! When the boat begins sinking in a whirlpool, the boatman asks if the grammarian knows how to swim. No? Then your whole life is wasted! (Masnavi 1: 2835-40).
Islamic civilisation under the Abbasids fostered the pursuit of other sciences as well, including medicine, mathematics, physics, astronomy, and philosophy. Greek philosophy was translated to Arabic and further developed by thinkers in the Muslim world, who adapted the tools of logic and the insights of neo-platonic and peripatetic philosophy to the intellectual questions of their own tradition. Some even proposed philosophy as a complementary rational system of knowledge to the metaphorical system of revealed religion. While admiring some of their logical tools, Muhammad al-Ghazali (d. 1111) considered the question and found the philosophers wanting. Ghazali isolated four competing epistemological claims to evaluate whether they could lead to certainty: philosophy; theology (as developed by Sunni Muslims); the doctrine in (particularly Ismaili) Shia Islam of authoritative interpretation by an infallible imam; and the mysticism of the Sufis. Ultimately, al-Ghazali dismisses the possibility of acquired knowledge and the rational intellect leading us to certainty, true understanding and right belief. He concludes that only experiential knowledge, the "tasting" or gnosis (ma‛rifa) of which the Sufis speak, can lead to certainty – but even that depends on self-purification, proper spiritual orientation, and divine grace. Rumi largely agrees:
The philosoph winds up through doubt, conjecture
In denial. Bash your head against the wall!
Masnavi 1: 3278
Far-sighted reason – I have tested it.
Henceforth, I'll make myself demented
Masnavi 2: 2332
Of course Rumi does acknowledge the value of human reason, and that intellect is a God-given faculty with real and useful applications. The trouble is that any individual possesses only partial intellect, and can never attain perfect knowledge through it. Only the universal intellect, identified with the prophets or saints, can attain that. Rumi illustrates this with the famous parable of the elephant – a tale told by al-Ghazali and Sana'i in the 12th century, though it can be traced all the way back to Buddhist scripture. Several people encounter an elephant for the first time in total darkness, touching different parts of the beast, groping for a rational conclusion about the reality they opaquely confront. Each come away with quite opposing ideas about the nature of the elephant, depending on whether he had touched the ear, the trunk, the back, the leg, or the tail. Only the light of universal intellect transcends their partial understandings to give a complete picture. This is why, for Rumi, true knowledge comes only through the Sufi path of following the prophet and the saints:
The Sufi's book's not writ in words and ink
It is nothing but a heart white as snow
Masnavi 2:159
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ophy-islam
Watch for the upcoming broadcasts of
"Rumi Returning
The Triumph of Divine Passion"
presented by American Public Television (APT)
DVD Available Now!
http://www.rumireturning.com/index.htm
We have extraordinary news! "Rumi Returning" has now been broadcast on over 330 PBS stations. That's virtually every PBS station in the country. The amazing part is that "Rumi" was not a network show. It was syndicated. Each station had to choose whether to air it or not. Many have chosen to broadcast it three or four times since its release in September.
We want to thank the hundreds of you who have purchased the "Rumi Returning" DVD on our website after viewing the film on PBS. A special thanks to those who have also told your friends about it and those who have written us with kudos or invited us to your community's screening events. You have helped to keep our work in Sacred Cinema going.
We formed Heaven on Earth Creations in 2004 to give our efforts completely to love, forgiveness, beauty, and humanity's inseparable oneness. We believe that each of us has been born to this pivotal era of human history with a purpose which, collectively, can nurture our species towards its limitless capacity for unconditional love, nonviolence, sustainability, and unity in beautiful diversity.
Also, read about our own journey discovering Rumi while we filmed his Wedding Night celebration (Sheb-i Arus) in the altruistic Islamic heart of ancient Anatolia.
*****
http://www.rumireturning.com/interview.htm
AN INTERVIEW WITH
AMBASSADOR AKBAR S. AHMED
Conducted in January, 2007
When I first heard Dr. Akbar Ahmed deliver the keynote address at a conference at the University of Oklahoma, I had not yet read his distinguished resume: Chair of Islamic Studies at American University; former High Commissioner of Pakistan to Great Britain; hailed by the BBC as the "world’s leading authority on contemporary Islam." The list goes on and on, to include being named Washington D. C. Professor of the Year in 2004 at an unprecedented interfaith service at the National Cathedral. Akbar had arrived in the U.S. just one week before 9-11. In its aftermath he committed himself to teach all who wanted to learn about the true essence of Islam.
That first time I heard him speak, I only knew that he was a kindred spirit: he was that fascinating, powerful combination of political and spiritual, the quintessential citizen ambassador for peace, who is focused on nothing less than transforming our world.
He was an eloquent spokesman for Islam and Sufism, arresting my attention with his statement about the paradox of Rumi being the best-selling poet in our post 9-11 world. Then he expertly condensed the Sufi message. "The message of Sufis like Rumi is unity." He challenged us to understand the deep love that Muslims have for Muhammad and suggested Jesus could be a bridge between Muslims and Christians because he was beloved by both.
As an anthropologist, educator, and author, Akbar is clearly a seeker and imparter of knowledge, at heart. But he also excels in two other virtues that all Muslims strive to attain: justice and compassion. He couldn’t have welcomed my co-producer Kell Kearns and me more warmly than that bitterly cold day in D. C. when we interviewed him in his office at American University.
- Cynthia Lukas, Co-Producer and Writer, Rumi Returning
CYNTHIA: Let’s begin with the phenomenon that is Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi. How would you explain the grand expansive flowering of Rumi’s transcendent mysticism and creative genius within the context of his turbulent times and circumstances, not unlike our own? After being a child refugee who had to flee his home to escape the Mongols, he could have seen himself as a victim, turned to a more conservative heterodoxy, but didn’t. Quite the opposite, with Rumi there is the sense of an absolute lack of limitation, of boundless love.
AKBAR: Remember that Islam is dramatically changing in Rumi’s lifetime. It’s the 13th century. The Crusades have been hammering the Muslim world from the West for centuries. What is hammering the Muslim world from the East comes from the Gobi Desert. . .Genghis Kahn and his descendants. In 1258 Genghis Kahn and his descendants would attack, invade and sack Baghdad, the heart of the Muslim Arab Dynasty, and a chapter in history would come to a close. Rumi is in the center, in the eye of the storm. In spite of that, Rumi transcends his predicament. He rises through Sufism and mysticism and love. And therein is the greatness of Rumi: in a time of great turmoil and trouble, he’s giving the human heart solace and compassion and love.
CYNTHIA: If Rumi is an exemplar of Sufism, explain Sufism. Over the centuries it seems to have been shrouded in mystery, particularly for those in the West.
AKBAR: Sufism is at the heart of all human society. It is man and woman’s urge to reach out to others, to understand the divine outside the formal boundaries of religion, orthodox religion. That is Sufism. It is simplicity. It is compassion. It is piety. And it is, above all, acceptance of others. So it the heart of all the great faiths. You can see it in great Biblical figures like Jesus. There’s no greater mystic, Sufi figure, than Jesus in terms of the symbolism of love and compassion and piety.
In Islam Sufism is directly associated with the Prophet of Islam himself, going back to the 7th century, especially in his dress, his simplicity, and his compassion for and feeling for the dispossessed in society. At that time women had no rights, orphans had no rights, and the Prophet was very, very compassionate and sensitive about the dispossessed. He identified with what in turn became Sufism.
The word itself, suf, comes from cloth or cloak, the rough cloth that simple people wear. And the Prophet of Islam again was famous for wearing a very simple, black blanket around himself. In the poetry and folklore and literature, he’s called The Wearer of the Black Blanket. So he really was a very humble and very simple man. He becomes the ideal prototype of the Sufi. Sufis possess this lineage and pride in the Prophet of Islam.
So, Mawlana Rumi, one of the greatest, best known and most beloved Sufis of all time, is inspired by the Prophet and the Qur’an. And here’s the paradox of Sufism: Rumi is the number one, best-selling poet in the United States of America, post 9-11, and Rumi is inspired directly by not only the Qur’an but the example of the Prophet of Islam.
CYNTHIA: In your book Islam Under Siege you wrote that "the popularity of Rumi’s poetry after 9-11 points to the paradoxes—and the hope—of our world." Many who have written about Rumi, in particular Annemarie Schimmel, note that even in his moments of deepest grief, he always offers hope, and that it is perhaps this aspect of his teaching that has endeared him to millions of readers. Is this fountain of hope characteristic of someone who follows the Sufi path of acceptance and love?
AKBAR: Yes. I’ve studied rural areas throughout the Muslim world. And, ordinary people, especially, especially the poor, love Sufism. They love mysticism. Picture to yourself, if you’re a villager in India or Pakistan, if you’re a Muslim, you’re living in some ordinary, isolated village, and you hear these wonderful devotional songs that Sufis sing. . .
It gives you hope! It gives you a sense of belonging that you are something. You may not be very rich. You may be living in a mud hut. You may have children you can’t feed, but you’re still human. You still matter. This Divine, the God we all worship, still loves you. God still cares for you.
Orthodox Islam, on the other hand, has a tendency—I’m looking at it from the point of view of the ordinary Muslim, the villager—to appear very harsh because orthodox Islam is really saying, “Do this and do this.” It’s very Abrahamic...The Ten Commandments. “Thou shalt and Thou shalt not.” Therefore, orthodox Islam is really telling the ordinary villager, “You shall do this and you shall not do that, or, you’re breaking the law and you’re not breaking the law.” The modernist Muslim tells the poor, “Can you vote for me in the next election?” And after the election like all politicians he may not come around to your village for the next four years or ten years. So, ultimately, the ordinary Muslim has very few people to count on except those who feel for him or her and can share their pain. The Sufi can be counted on to love unconditionally.
CYNTHIA: Why has Sufism continued to grow and spread steadily since its recorded beginning in the 7th and 8th centuries (of the common era) with saints such as Rābi‛a, often called the “First Among Sufis,” who spoke of Allah as her “Beloved” as Rumi and other Sufis would later?
AKBAR: After the 7th century Islam sort of exploded from the Arabian Peninsula, and it exploded in two or three different forms. It is now a global power. It’s a dominant civilization. So it exploded in the forms of generals, military captains, with a fervor; some would say, “with the Qur’an in one hand, sword in the other”. But, much of the explosion came in the form of scholars, sages and mystics, who brought the message of Islam to the villages and towns and shantytowns, and lived with people and talked of love and compassion and simplicity. They brought a different message: the message of Sulh-i-kul (“Peace with all.”).
So the essence of Islam was spread by these wonderful mystics and sages from the time of the Prophet onwards. Sufism spread both to Central Asia and to South Asia, converting millions of people through example, friendship, and personal interaction. Indeed, as you said, one of the earliest Sufis was Rābi‛a. She is a paradox, a great female Sufi -and we’re talking of centuries before Rumi - living in what is now Iraq and talking about love and compassion, although she had a very tough life. She had a very, very tough life as a female, and apparently, a beautiful woman, yet she emerged from her traumatic life to become a figure of love and compassion and simplicity. Her poems to God and her love for God are very, very moving.
In a sense you can see a lot of Rumi in Rābi‛a centuries before. So when Rumi arrives he’s not coming out of nowhere. He’s not composing on a blank slate. There’s already a great build-up to Rumi, and of course, there would continue to be other Sufi figures like Rumi making a similar impact all over the world.
CYNTHIA: Early Sufic masters were persecuted for making statements such as “I am God” or “I am Truth”. There are hints that Rumi’s beloved father and teacher decided to flee Balkh not just because of the Mongol attack but because he wasn’t considered orthodox enough by some fellow theologians. And, of course, the circumstances around Shams’ disappearance and probable murder suggest that some, even one of Rumi’s own sons, believed that Shams had led Rumi astray from orthodoxy. What is there about this Sufic path of love and compassion and simplicity that could draw such opposition and persecution?
AKBAR: The question of how Sufis relate to the Divine is a very interesting one, and not just from the personal dimension. It raises huge theological issues. Because the Sufi may say that he or she loves the Divine so much that they don’t see any boundaries between the Divine and those of us on earth living as mortals. There are no boundaries. We are one, fused with the Divine. So therefore you have the classic example of the Sufi saying, “ana al-haqq,” “I am God” and then confronting the full wrath and majesty of the orthodox establishment.
When Sufis pushed this notion of love and fusion and merging with the Divine to the point of making such statements they were persecuted, very often killed for their beliefs. So Sufis had to find a very clever way of living in this world while expressing their intense love of the Divine. And, one way of doing it was to express the love of God by using symbolism, allegory, metaphors—the language of poetry. So, if they said, “Beloved, I love you to the point of distraction. When I look at you, I look with the eyes of love. You are like wine for me. When I drink you, I become intoxicated.” - The Sufi, in fact, was talking about love for the Divine. Everyone understood this. What this does is, it creates an entire literature around Sufism, very moving, very powerful.
CYNTHIA: For your book Journey Into Islam: The Crisis of Globalization, you traveled extensively around the world interviewing Muslims about their ideas, values, and role models. You found out that one of the most beloved role models in Turkey is Rumi, who, while born in the Persian Empire, lived most of his life in Rūm (now Turkey). But, how are Sufis viewed today by Muslims who are not Sufis?
AKBAR: I would say that a lot of people when they understand Sufism have great sympathy for Sufism. No Muslim can resist the charm and the attraction of the Prophet of Islam. And when a Muslim sees the Sufi’s love for the Prophet, the Muslim melts because he appreciates the Sufi, his piety and peace.. Not all Muslims may agree with the method, but most appreciate the intense devotion of the Sufi.
CYNTHIA: I’ve heard you speak about our world “reaching an endgame with fewer and fewer choices.” We agree, and all of our film work is about showing our world community our common humanity in order to further understanding, encourage harmony, and offer choices or alternatives that can lead us down the path to “Peace with all.” What do Islam and Sufism in particular offer the world in its precarious position today?
AKBAR: What we’re now seeing in the Muslim world is the reemergence of the traditionalist model. But, what we really need to see is the strengthening, the defining, and the clear identification of the universal mystic model in Islam. That is the message of Islam that the 21st century is waiting for. And it’s absolutely crucial because ¼ of humanity will be Muslim in the next few decades. There are 57 Muslim states today, one of them nuclear. Very soon there may be half a dozen nuclear powers from the Muslim world.
And there are 7 million Muslims in the United States of America. And America has a direct interest in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey, all Muslim countries. America above all cannot afford to be ignorant of Islam. It is not merely an academic exercise for Americans to come understand Islam...in its nuances and complexities, not the simplistic stuff that is broadcast in the media, but the kind of discussion you and I are having. Americans need to appreciate, interact, and therefore to make sense of the world of Islam. Without this understanding , the US will have no idea how to deal with this huge global civilization that is Islam.
CYNTHIA: There are those beautiful Rumi lines: “Ignorance is God’s prison. Knowing is God’s palace.” Rumi himself as a Sufi teacher, with his poetry being only one of the ways that he taught his students, seems to have embodied the Islamic ideal of the pursuit of ilm or knowledge. Historically Muslims have made vital contributions to our world civilization by being inquisitive, pursuing scholarship, and preserving knowledge. For example, when the West descended into the the Dark Ages, it was the Islamic Empire with its hunger for knowledge who kept classical knowledge alive. Tell us about the importance of ilm to Islam.
AKBAR: The Prophet said in the 7th century—think of yourself as an Arab in the 7th century, completely cut off from the world. Yet the Prophet said, “Seek knowledge (ilm) even if you have to go to China.” For an Arab in the 7th century, going to China would be like telling you or me in the 21st century, “Go to Mars or go to the moon to acquire knowledge.” It was a leap into the unknown. And yet it is the duty of a Muslim to acquire knowledge. That is the reason that drives millions of Muslims to respect the United States of America and migrate to the United States, its universities, its way of life, its welcome to the immigrant.
People in the media and America associate Islam with terrorism, extremism, and so on. You see these shrieking mobs, and people being beheaded, and all these terrible things that have happened and are happening in the Muslim world. What they don’t understand is the supreme position of knowledge or ilm in Islam. The second most used word in the Qur’an after the word of God, the name of God, is ilm. The Prophet of Islam said the greatest duty of a Muslim is to acquire knowledge. “The ink of the scholar,” the Prophet said, “is more sacred than the blood of the martyr.” Think of the power of this statement! If Muslims understood this, they would not be blowing themselves up. They would be studying and writing and reading and using the mind.
This is a great challenge for Muslims and a greater challenge for the West because the West does not see this aspect of Islam. It simply sees Islam as a threatening, migrating civilization, which is going to strike us here, there, everywhere, in the airport, on the train, or in our homes. Let us understand the true features, the central features, the core features of Islam, and the ideal of Islam, which has ilm at its heart.
CYNTHIA: What specifically does Rumi have to offer us today?
AKBAR: If there’s one motto which the post 9-11 world needs to adopt, I would say it should be a line from Rumi, where he says, “I go to the synagogue, I go to the church, I go to the mosque, and I see the same altar, and I feel the same spirit.” This is the embodiment of the universal spirit, without which I’m afraid in the 21st century, and I can say this with great confidence, we as a world civilization are lost. We do not have a choice. We must rediscover the spirit of the universal mystics.
"Rumi Returning
The Triumph of Divine Passion"
presented by American Public Television (APT)
DVD Available Now!
http://www.rumireturning.com/index.htm
We have extraordinary news! "Rumi Returning" has now been broadcast on over 330 PBS stations. That's virtually every PBS station in the country. The amazing part is that "Rumi" was not a network show. It was syndicated. Each station had to choose whether to air it or not. Many have chosen to broadcast it three or four times since its release in September.
We want to thank the hundreds of you who have purchased the "Rumi Returning" DVD on our website after viewing the film on PBS. A special thanks to those who have also told your friends about it and those who have written us with kudos or invited us to your community's screening events. You have helped to keep our work in Sacred Cinema going.
We formed Heaven on Earth Creations in 2004 to give our efforts completely to love, forgiveness, beauty, and humanity's inseparable oneness. We believe that each of us has been born to this pivotal era of human history with a purpose which, collectively, can nurture our species towards its limitless capacity for unconditional love, nonviolence, sustainability, and unity in beautiful diversity.
Also, read about our own journey discovering Rumi while we filmed his Wedding Night celebration (Sheb-i Arus) in the altruistic Islamic heart of ancient Anatolia.
*****
http://www.rumireturning.com/interview.htm
AN INTERVIEW WITH
AMBASSADOR AKBAR S. AHMED
Conducted in January, 2007
When I first heard Dr. Akbar Ahmed deliver the keynote address at a conference at the University of Oklahoma, I had not yet read his distinguished resume: Chair of Islamic Studies at American University; former High Commissioner of Pakistan to Great Britain; hailed by the BBC as the "world’s leading authority on contemporary Islam." The list goes on and on, to include being named Washington D. C. Professor of the Year in 2004 at an unprecedented interfaith service at the National Cathedral. Akbar had arrived in the U.S. just one week before 9-11. In its aftermath he committed himself to teach all who wanted to learn about the true essence of Islam.
That first time I heard him speak, I only knew that he was a kindred spirit: he was that fascinating, powerful combination of political and spiritual, the quintessential citizen ambassador for peace, who is focused on nothing less than transforming our world.
He was an eloquent spokesman for Islam and Sufism, arresting my attention with his statement about the paradox of Rumi being the best-selling poet in our post 9-11 world. Then he expertly condensed the Sufi message. "The message of Sufis like Rumi is unity." He challenged us to understand the deep love that Muslims have for Muhammad and suggested Jesus could be a bridge between Muslims and Christians because he was beloved by both.
As an anthropologist, educator, and author, Akbar is clearly a seeker and imparter of knowledge, at heart. But he also excels in two other virtues that all Muslims strive to attain: justice and compassion. He couldn’t have welcomed my co-producer Kell Kearns and me more warmly than that bitterly cold day in D. C. when we interviewed him in his office at American University.
- Cynthia Lukas, Co-Producer and Writer, Rumi Returning
CYNTHIA: Let’s begin with the phenomenon that is Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi. How would you explain the grand expansive flowering of Rumi’s transcendent mysticism and creative genius within the context of his turbulent times and circumstances, not unlike our own? After being a child refugee who had to flee his home to escape the Mongols, he could have seen himself as a victim, turned to a more conservative heterodoxy, but didn’t. Quite the opposite, with Rumi there is the sense of an absolute lack of limitation, of boundless love.
AKBAR: Remember that Islam is dramatically changing in Rumi’s lifetime. It’s the 13th century. The Crusades have been hammering the Muslim world from the West for centuries. What is hammering the Muslim world from the East comes from the Gobi Desert. . .Genghis Kahn and his descendants. In 1258 Genghis Kahn and his descendants would attack, invade and sack Baghdad, the heart of the Muslim Arab Dynasty, and a chapter in history would come to a close. Rumi is in the center, in the eye of the storm. In spite of that, Rumi transcends his predicament. He rises through Sufism and mysticism and love. And therein is the greatness of Rumi: in a time of great turmoil and trouble, he’s giving the human heart solace and compassion and love.
CYNTHIA: If Rumi is an exemplar of Sufism, explain Sufism. Over the centuries it seems to have been shrouded in mystery, particularly for those in the West.
AKBAR: Sufism is at the heart of all human society. It is man and woman’s urge to reach out to others, to understand the divine outside the formal boundaries of religion, orthodox religion. That is Sufism. It is simplicity. It is compassion. It is piety. And it is, above all, acceptance of others. So it the heart of all the great faiths. You can see it in great Biblical figures like Jesus. There’s no greater mystic, Sufi figure, than Jesus in terms of the symbolism of love and compassion and piety.
In Islam Sufism is directly associated with the Prophet of Islam himself, going back to the 7th century, especially in his dress, his simplicity, and his compassion for and feeling for the dispossessed in society. At that time women had no rights, orphans had no rights, and the Prophet was very, very compassionate and sensitive about the dispossessed. He identified with what in turn became Sufism.
The word itself, suf, comes from cloth or cloak, the rough cloth that simple people wear. And the Prophet of Islam again was famous for wearing a very simple, black blanket around himself. In the poetry and folklore and literature, he’s called The Wearer of the Black Blanket. So he really was a very humble and very simple man. He becomes the ideal prototype of the Sufi. Sufis possess this lineage and pride in the Prophet of Islam.
So, Mawlana Rumi, one of the greatest, best known and most beloved Sufis of all time, is inspired by the Prophet and the Qur’an. And here’s the paradox of Sufism: Rumi is the number one, best-selling poet in the United States of America, post 9-11, and Rumi is inspired directly by not only the Qur’an but the example of the Prophet of Islam.
CYNTHIA: In your book Islam Under Siege you wrote that "the popularity of Rumi’s poetry after 9-11 points to the paradoxes—and the hope—of our world." Many who have written about Rumi, in particular Annemarie Schimmel, note that even in his moments of deepest grief, he always offers hope, and that it is perhaps this aspect of his teaching that has endeared him to millions of readers. Is this fountain of hope characteristic of someone who follows the Sufi path of acceptance and love?
AKBAR: Yes. I’ve studied rural areas throughout the Muslim world. And, ordinary people, especially, especially the poor, love Sufism. They love mysticism. Picture to yourself, if you’re a villager in India or Pakistan, if you’re a Muslim, you’re living in some ordinary, isolated village, and you hear these wonderful devotional songs that Sufis sing. . .
It gives you hope! It gives you a sense of belonging that you are something. You may not be very rich. You may be living in a mud hut. You may have children you can’t feed, but you’re still human. You still matter. This Divine, the God we all worship, still loves you. God still cares for you.
Orthodox Islam, on the other hand, has a tendency—I’m looking at it from the point of view of the ordinary Muslim, the villager—to appear very harsh because orthodox Islam is really saying, “Do this and do this.” It’s very Abrahamic...The Ten Commandments. “Thou shalt and Thou shalt not.” Therefore, orthodox Islam is really telling the ordinary villager, “You shall do this and you shall not do that, or, you’re breaking the law and you’re not breaking the law.” The modernist Muslim tells the poor, “Can you vote for me in the next election?” And after the election like all politicians he may not come around to your village for the next four years or ten years. So, ultimately, the ordinary Muslim has very few people to count on except those who feel for him or her and can share their pain. The Sufi can be counted on to love unconditionally.
CYNTHIA: Why has Sufism continued to grow and spread steadily since its recorded beginning in the 7th and 8th centuries (of the common era) with saints such as Rābi‛a, often called the “First Among Sufis,” who spoke of Allah as her “Beloved” as Rumi and other Sufis would later?
AKBAR: After the 7th century Islam sort of exploded from the Arabian Peninsula, and it exploded in two or three different forms. It is now a global power. It’s a dominant civilization. So it exploded in the forms of generals, military captains, with a fervor; some would say, “with the Qur’an in one hand, sword in the other”. But, much of the explosion came in the form of scholars, sages and mystics, who brought the message of Islam to the villages and towns and shantytowns, and lived with people and talked of love and compassion and simplicity. They brought a different message: the message of Sulh-i-kul (“Peace with all.”).
So the essence of Islam was spread by these wonderful mystics and sages from the time of the Prophet onwards. Sufism spread both to Central Asia and to South Asia, converting millions of people through example, friendship, and personal interaction. Indeed, as you said, one of the earliest Sufis was Rābi‛a. She is a paradox, a great female Sufi -and we’re talking of centuries before Rumi - living in what is now Iraq and talking about love and compassion, although she had a very tough life. She had a very, very tough life as a female, and apparently, a beautiful woman, yet she emerged from her traumatic life to become a figure of love and compassion and simplicity. Her poems to God and her love for God are very, very moving.
In a sense you can see a lot of Rumi in Rābi‛a centuries before. So when Rumi arrives he’s not coming out of nowhere. He’s not composing on a blank slate. There’s already a great build-up to Rumi, and of course, there would continue to be other Sufi figures like Rumi making a similar impact all over the world.
CYNTHIA: Early Sufic masters were persecuted for making statements such as “I am God” or “I am Truth”. There are hints that Rumi’s beloved father and teacher decided to flee Balkh not just because of the Mongol attack but because he wasn’t considered orthodox enough by some fellow theologians. And, of course, the circumstances around Shams’ disappearance and probable murder suggest that some, even one of Rumi’s own sons, believed that Shams had led Rumi astray from orthodoxy. What is there about this Sufic path of love and compassion and simplicity that could draw such opposition and persecution?
AKBAR: The question of how Sufis relate to the Divine is a very interesting one, and not just from the personal dimension. It raises huge theological issues. Because the Sufi may say that he or she loves the Divine so much that they don’t see any boundaries between the Divine and those of us on earth living as mortals. There are no boundaries. We are one, fused with the Divine. So therefore you have the classic example of the Sufi saying, “ana al-haqq,” “I am God” and then confronting the full wrath and majesty of the orthodox establishment.
When Sufis pushed this notion of love and fusion and merging with the Divine to the point of making such statements they were persecuted, very often killed for their beliefs. So Sufis had to find a very clever way of living in this world while expressing their intense love of the Divine. And, one way of doing it was to express the love of God by using symbolism, allegory, metaphors—the language of poetry. So, if they said, “Beloved, I love you to the point of distraction. When I look at you, I look with the eyes of love. You are like wine for me. When I drink you, I become intoxicated.” - The Sufi, in fact, was talking about love for the Divine. Everyone understood this. What this does is, it creates an entire literature around Sufism, very moving, very powerful.
CYNTHIA: For your book Journey Into Islam: The Crisis of Globalization, you traveled extensively around the world interviewing Muslims about their ideas, values, and role models. You found out that one of the most beloved role models in Turkey is Rumi, who, while born in the Persian Empire, lived most of his life in Rūm (now Turkey). But, how are Sufis viewed today by Muslims who are not Sufis?
AKBAR: I would say that a lot of people when they understand Sufism have great sympathy for Sufism. No Muslim can resist the charm and the attraction of the Prophet of Islam. And when a Muslim sees the Sufi’s love for the Prophet, the Muslim melts because he appreciates the Sufi, his piety and peace.. Not all Muslims may agree with the method, but most appreciate the intense devotion of the Sufi.
CYNTHIA: I’ve heard you speak about our world “reaching an endgame with fewer and fewer choices.” We agree, and all of our film work is about showing our world community our common humanity in order to further understanding, encourage harmony, and offer choices or alternatives that can lead us down the path to “Peace with all.” What do Islam and Sufism in particular offer the world in its precarious position today?
AKBAR: What we’re now seeing in the Muslim world is the reemergence of the traditionalist model. But, what we really need to see is the strengthening, the defining, and the clear identification of the universal mystic model in Islam. That is the message of Islam that the 21st century is waiting for. And it’s absolutely crucial because ¼ of humanity will be Muslim in the next few decades. There are 57 Muslim states today, one of them nuclear. Very soon there may be half a dozen nuclear powers from the Muslim world.
And there are 7 million Muslims in the United States of America. And America has a direct interest in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey, all Muslim countries. America above all cannot afford to be ignorant of Islam. It is not merely an academic exercise for Americans to come understand Islam...in its nuances and complexities, not the simplistic stuff that is broadcast in the media, but the kind of discussion you and I are having. Americans need to appreciate, interact, and therefore to make sense of the world of Islam. Without this understanding , the US will have no idea how to deal with this huge global civilization that is Islam.
CYNTHIA: There are those beautiful Rumi lines: “Ignorance is God’s prison. Knowing is God’s palace.” Rumi himself as a Sufi teacher, with his poetry being only one of the ways that he taught his students, seems to have embodied the Islamic ideal of the pursuit of ilm or knowledge. Historically Muslims have made vital contributions to our world civilization by being inquisitive, pursuing scholarship, and preserving knowledge. For example, when the West descended into the the Dark Ages, it was the Islamic Empire with its hunger for knowledge who kept classical knowledge alive. Tell us about the importance of ilm to Islam.
AKBAR: The Prophet said in the 7th century—think of yourself as an Arab in the 7th century, completely cut off from the world. Yet the Prophet said, “Seek knowledge (ilm) even if you have to go to China.” For an Arab in the 7th century, going to China would be like telling you or me in the 21st century, “Go to Mars or go to the moon to acquire knowledge.” It was a leap into the unknown. And yet it is the duty of a Muslim to acquire knowledge. That is the reason that drives millions of Muslims to respect the United States of America and migrate to the United States, its universities, its way of life, its welcome to the immigrant.
People in the media and America associate Islam with terrorism, extremism, and so on. You see these shrieking mobs, and people being beheaded, and all these terrible things that have happened and are happening in the Muslim world. What they don’t understand is the supreme position of knowledge or ilm in Islam. The second most used word in the Qur’an after the word of God, the name of God, is ilm. The Prophet of Islam said the greatest duty of a Muslim is to acquire knowledge. “The ink of the scholar,” the Prophet said, “is more sacred than the blood of the martyr.” Think of the power of this statement! If Muslims understood this, they would not be blowing themselves up. They would be studying and writing and reading and using the mind.
This is a great challenge for Muslims and a greater challenge for the West because the West does not see this aspect of Islam. It simply sees Islam as a threatening, migrating civilization, which is going to strike us here, there, everywhere, in the airport, on the train, or in our homes. Let us understand the true features, the central features, the core features of Islam, and the ideal of Islam, which has ilm at its heart.
CYNTHIA: What specifically does Rumi have to offer us today?
AKBAR: If there’s one motto which the post 9-11 world needs to adopt, I would say it should be a line from Rumi, where he says, “I go to the synagogue, I go to the church, I go to the mosque, and I see the same altar, and I feel the same spirit.” This is the embodiment of the universal spirit, without which I’m afraid in the 21st century, and I can say this with great confidence, we as a world civilization are lost. We do not have a choice. We must rediscover the spirit of the universal mystics.
RUMI FEST 2010 with Coleman Barks
- Oct 23 | 6:30 pm
Venue: Trinity-St. Paul Center (Spadina & Bloor) | **Directions**
Tickets: $20 and $30
*** $30 tickets are sold out. $20 tickets are selling fast ***
>> Go to Rumi Fest - DAY 2
RUMI FEST 2010 - Day 1 will feature performances by: Coleman Barks, Whirling Dervishes with Sufi Music, from the Canadian Sufi Cultural Center, Garo & Friends and a special guest performance on Sitar by Irshad Khan, the sitar maestro. It will also feature an art exhibit by:
THE OPEN EASEL revolving around Rumi's work.
* A Portion of the proceeds from this event will be donated to the victims of the flooding in Pakistan, where at least 2,000 people have been killed, with more than 20 million people affected.
According to the United Nations, this is more than the combined total of the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, the 2005 Kashmir earthquake and the 2010 Haiti earthquake.
http://www.nomanslandpromotions.com/rumifest.html
- Oct 23 | 6:30 pm
Venue: Trinity-St. Paul Center (Spadina & Bloor) | **Directions**
Tickets: $20 and $30
*** $30 tickets are sold out. $20 tickets are selling fast ***
>> Go to Rumi Fest - DAY 2
RUMI FEST 2010 - Day 1 will feature performances by: Coleman Barks, Whirling Dervishes with Sufi Music, from the Canadian Sufi Cultural Center, Garo & Friends and a special guest performance on Sitar by Irshad Khan, the sitar maestro. It will also feature an art exhibit by:
THE OPEN EASEL revolving around Rumi's work.
* A Portion of the proceeds from this event will be donated to the victims of the flooding in Pakistan, where at least 2,000 people have been killed, with more than 20 million people affected.
According to the United Nations, this is more than the combined total of the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, the 2005 Kashmir earthquake and the 2010 Haiti earthquake.
http://www.nomanslandpromotions.com/rumifest.html
According to Ismailis, ranks [huddod-e Din] of Ismaili tariqa, there are 28 Hujjats of the Imam, as follow:
- 4 Hujjats of proximity that is also allegorized as 4 gates to the Ka'ba. One must enter one of these gates [Hujjats] to get to Ka'ba [The Imam]. Supreme Hujjat [aka Pir] is elected by sole descrestion of the Imam of the Time from amongst these 4 Hujjats of proximity.
- 12 Hujjats of "Day": These Hujjats are proof of the Imam of the Time, within the Ismaili tariqa in various locations.
- 12 Hujjats of "Night": These Hujjats may not necessarily be officially within Ismaili Tariqa; however, they function the same as other Hujjats of "Day" in other communities to invite mankind to true path [Siratu-l-Mustaqim]. Note, Ismaili IS the siratul-Mustaqim.
Therefore, Rumi and even maybe other sages could very well have been functioning as Hujjat of "Night", inviting mankind to siratul-mustaqim continuing the Da'wa. The purpose of Shams Tabriz was that to invite Rumi to awakening and true path. We see today that the works of Rumi is studied not only within various Sufi tariqas and Islamic societies, but extends even beyond to western and christian worlds.
There's a vers from Masnavi of Mawlana that confirms him being Ismaili, as follow:
ای حریفان من از آنها نیستم
کز خیالاتی درین ره بیستم
من چو اسماعیلیانم بیحذر
بل چو اسمعیل آزادم ز سر
Note, in the second verse, it says "I am as Ismailis without fear, as the Ismail [son of Abrahim] liberated [ready to be sacrificed]". Rumi specifically mentioned "Ismaili" that he is, in this verse. For reference this verse is in section 197 third chapter of Masnavi
- 4 Hujjats of proximity that is also allegorized as 4 gates to the Ka'ba. One must enter one of these gates [Hujjats] to get to Ka'ba [The Imam]. Supreme Hujjat [aka Pir] is elected by sole descrestion of the Imam of the Time from amongst these 4 Hujjats of proximity.
- 12 Hujjats of "Day": These Hujjats are proof of the Imam of the Time, within the Ismaili tariqa in various locations.
- 12 Hujjats of "Night": These Hujjats may not necessarily be officially within Ismaili Tariqa; however, they function the same as other Hujjats of "Day" in other communities to invite mankind to true path [Siratu-l-Mustaqim]. Note, Ismaili IS the siratul-Mustaqim.
Therefore, Rumi and even maybe other sages could very well have been functioning as Hujjat of "Night", inviting mankind to siratul-mustaqim continuing the Da'wa. The purpose of Shams Tabriz was that to invite Rumi to awakening and true path. We see today that the works of Rumi is studied not only within various Sufi tariqas and Islamic societies, but extends even beyond to western and christian worlds.
There's a vers from Masnavi of Mawlana that confirms him being Ismaili, as follow:
ای حریفان من از آنها نیستم
کز خیالاتی درین ره بیستم
من چو اسماعیلیانم بیحذر
بل چو اسمعیل آزادم ز سر
Note, in the second verse, it says "I am as Ismailis without fear, as the Ismail [son of Abrahim] liberated [ready to be sacrificed]". Rumi specifically mentioned "Ismaili" that he is, in this verse. For reference this verse is in section 197 third chapter of Masnavi
Below is the extended extract as requested by you.nuseri wrote:To kmaherali: Ya Ali Madad.
If you can re post the extract of the farman no 160 with 4 lines before that and 4 lines after that.
I need specific reply and not subjective status reply, before I post my status on Rumi.
1) why his Mhi called him as poet and not moulana,auliya,pirs or dai.?
2) I assume that the status of Shams Tabriz was revered n no less than a Pirs.
Why did not the poet Rumi Gave his Bayt thru Shams to the Imam of the Time?
I am ready for the debate.
"There are many religions in the world, which are not Sufi. The Shariati, the Christians, the Jews, the Hindus, etc., those believers are not all Sufi. Their thoughts (khyal) and their bandgi lead downwards. The very desires they possess are not good. They wish to have, once in paradise, good things to eat, nice clothes, lots of women and the joys of paradise for themselves. Such desires are not good. Such desires are those of the Shariati. Paradise too is like the world. The real aspiration of the soul is a different gem (jawhar) altogether.
Mowlana Rumi has said that: “I was a stone; from there, I was created a tree; from that, I was transformed and created an ant; after that, I reached the stage of an animal. I ceased to be an animal to reach the status of a monkey. From that, I became a human being (insan). From human being (insan), what shall I become? I shall become an angel (malayak). From there, where shall I go? I shall rise higher still.”
You must think of becoming fana. Whoever desires it and strives for it, will be able to get there. But your sins do not let you get there; those sins have locked you in a prison. The sins of the world have put you in prison. The same way, the habit of lying has emprisoned you; and your wishes, such as paradise, women, good fruits, all these desires have emprisoned you. But the soul is never happy in a prison. Listen, think: If one catches a nightingale or any other bird, and puts it in a cage, if one gives it water and those good things that animals eat, it will still not be happy in a cage. To fly away and wander in the air will make it happier; it longs to fly away from the cage."
MHI called him a poet because he was addressing an essentially Western audience at Toronto. In the Western world Rumi is known as a poet and therefore MHI referred to him as a poet.
However MSMS in his Farmans to his murids referred to him as Mowlana Rumi - a different audience.
He did not give Bayat to the Imam of the time through Shams because his mission was to spread Sufism to others indicating that fanna fi Allah is possible outside of our Tariqah. MHI cannot be the guide of the entire humanity, it is not possible, hence other tariqahs have been opened for others.
I would not stoop at your level. Go and check out the Farman for yourself!nuseri wrote:Ya ALI madad.
Saw that.
You are posting only what other want to read.
Which one is part of farman no 160.?.
If Rumi was so arrogant why would the 48th and 49th Imams mention him at all?nuseri wrote: Rumi was arrogant with his status he disregarded the bayat.your answer stand no ground..?.
Today he is the most famous poet in the Western world. Why do people read his poetry if it did not have any substance. Why would the Imam tell us to study Rumi?nuseri wrote: What legacy did rumi leave...?.
As the Imam himself has siad, the path of Haqiqat.nuseri wrote: Imam said they took the other path.
What is that path?...?.
The rest of your post has no substance.
Ya ALI madad:
Just referring by Imam does not make any binding on Ismaili.
As he was a Sufi and his work merit importance of Sufism in Islam to westerner.
MHI mentioned they we haqiqati n took a path beyond that.
What is the value addition to Ismailia from work of poet rumi?
Has present Mhi referred him in any of his farmans.
Speeches are not binding on Jamat perse.
What language did Imam SMS made Farman.
Who translated if any to English.
During Imam SMS many khojas were leaning toward 12er Shia doctrines n Rumi work was acknowledged as a 12er to cool of the ignorants then.
Three questions still pending.
Language,translation,and what path.????
Khoja scholars are blinkered at caring percentage, no
Originality just copy paste.
Is farman to be like stalwart part of no 160 or different one?
If MHI takes name of Idi Amin in a speech,do we start adoring him?
Does IIS produce all to be parrots of Past history ?
Rumi the fool became Momin of a pirs instead of Imam,
Similarly I see few here trying to follow pirs work more than Imam,inspite they died many hundred back.
Just referring by Imam does not make any binding on Ismaili.
As he was a Sufi and his work merit importance of Sufism in Islam to westerner.
MHI mentioned they we haqiqati n took a path beyond that.
What is the value addition to Ismailia from work of poet rumi?
Has present Mhi referred him in any of his farmans.
Speeches are not binding on Jamat perse.
What language did Imam SMS made Farman.
Who translated if any to English.
During Imam SMS many khojas were leaning toward 12er Shia doctrines n Rumi work was acknowledged as a 12er to cool of the ignorants then.
Three questions still pending.
Language,translation,and what path.????
Khoja scholars are blinkered at caring percentage, no
Originality just copy paste.
Is farman to be like stalwart part of no 160 or different one?
If MHI takes name of Idi Amin in a speech,do we start adoring him?
Does IIS produce all to be parrots of Past history ?
Rumi the fool became Momin of a pirs instead of Imam,
Similarly I see few here trying to follow pirs work more than Imam,inspite they died many hundred back.
So what makes it binding on Ismaili if not Imam's reference?nuseri wrote:Ya ALI madad:
Just referring by Imam does not make any binding on Ismaili.
That is what MSMS said in his Farman:nuseri wrote: As he was a Sufi and his work merit importance of Sufism in Islam to westerner.
MHI mentioned they we haqiqati n took a path beyond that..
"There are many religions in the world, which are not Sufi. The Shariati, the Christians, the Jews, the Hindus, etc., those believers are not all Sufi."
That means Ismailis are Sufis unlike other faiths.
MSMS said in another Farman that Rumi like Pir Shams, Nasir Khusraw was Haqiqati:
Those who do not have the knowledge forsake the Haqiqat, but those who are Haqiqati, follow the other path. Just as (1) Hazrat Essa, (2) Pir Sadardin, (3) Nasir Khushraw, (4) Pir Shams, (5) Mowlana Rumi, and the like, followed the path of Haqiqat. This path is very difficult for the foolish persons.(Farman No.160, Dar-es-Salam, 29-09-1899)
MSMS told us to study the work of Rumi to know the goodness of our Tariqah:nuseri wrote: What is the value addition to Ismailia from work of poet rumi?..
"If you will read the books of Mowlana Rumi and of Shah Shams Tabriz, then you would come to know about which path is good!"
Ismailis in Iran read the Masnavi in JKs.
MHI has not referred to any thinker by name in his Farmans, that does not mean that thinkers. poets have no value. MHI has told us to follow the Farmans of his grandfather who has mentioned Rumi.nuseri wrote: Has present Mhi referred him in any of his farmans.?..
But the Farmans are?nuseri wrote: Speeches are not binding on Jamat perse..?..
MSMS made all his Farmans in Persian which were then translated into Gujerati in his presence. The Imam would correct them if they were not accurate. The translation is generally an accepted one.nuseri wrote: What language did Imam SMS made Farman.
Who translated if any to English.
During Imam SMS many khojas were leaning toward 12er Shia doctrines n Rumi work was acknowledged as a 12er to cool of the ignorants then.
Three questions still pending.
Language,translation,and what path.????
Khoja scholars are blinkered at caring percentage, no
Originality just copy paste.
Is farman to be like stalwart part of no 160 or different one?
If MHI takes name of Idi Amin in a speech,do we start adoring him?
Does IIS produce all to be parrots of Past history ?
Rumi the fool became Momin of a pirs instead of Imam,
Similarly I see few here trying to follow pirs work more than Imam,inspite they died many hundred back.
If MHI told us to respect Idi Amin then we would! But that is not a good comparison.
MHI has told us in his Farmans to draw inspiration from the poets and thinkers of the past! Why would the Imam call the Ginans a wonderful tradition which is so unique and special, if the Pirs have no value?
To kmaherali:Ya ALI madad.
I have the copy of farman no 160.
Other please see how crooked n fallen you are in distorting the farman n utter low grade translation.
I suspected when you posted.
You may doing this because you blinkered failed scholar.
The farman in Gujarati.
Tamara ma this koshish karey me amey pirs Sadarddin.pirs shams thataa Mansur jeeva thayiee.
Next para.
Ketlak hajar varsho tgsi gayee terms ketla mansoo try maksud ney pohochayee che?
H Isaa,H rasool.s.a,Mansur,pirs Shams Andy duniya naa bija maanaso pochhya che.
THERE IS NO MENTION OF RUMI AND YOU HAVE INSERTED IT.
there is mention later of Rumi of his story of evolution from stone to angel.
You are cheating the forum with the content n translation
Read the Ayat ,what is in store for those who wronged the word of Ali+lay= Allah.
Please not post any rubbish to challenge me.
May God bless you.
You bungle up in every third post of yours ,I do not make comment at you do at your best level effort at your low significant level.
I assume you partly wasted your years n Imams fund in IIS.
I have the copy of farman no 160.
Other please see how crooked n fallen you are in distorting the farman n utter low grade translation.
I suspected when you posted.
You may doing this because you blinkered failed scholar.
The farman in Gujarati.
Tamara ma this koshish karey me amey pirs Sadarddin.pirs shams thataa Mansur jeeva thayiee.
Next para.
Ketlak hajar varsho tgsi gayee terms ketla mansoo try maksud ney pohochayee che?
H Isaa,H rasool.s.a,Mansur,pirs Shams Andy duniya naa bija maanaso pochhya che.
THERE IS NO MENTION OF RUMI AND YOU HAVE INSERTED IT.
there is mention later of Rumi of his story of evolution from stone to angel.
You are cheating the forum with the content n translation
Read the Ayat ,what is in store for those who wronged the word of Ali+lay= Allah.
Please not post any rubbish to challenge me.
May God bless you.
You bungle up in every third post of yours ,I do not make comment at you do at your best level effort at your low significant level.
I assume you partly wasted your years n Imams fund in IIS.
This is a very lengthy Farman starting from page 216 to 223. You did not bother to read the entire Farman...nuseri wrote:THERE IS NO MENTION OF RUMI AND YOU HAVE INSERTED IT.
there is mention later of Rumi of his story of evolution from stone to angel.
This is what it says later on page 222.
“Ey” be-ilmi kem raaji thaay? “Ey” haqiqat ney pakadto nathi. Eney haqiqat joiti nathi. Jeo be-ilm chhe teo haqiqat ney chhodi aapey chhe, pun jey haqiqati chhe tey bijey rastey chaaley chhe. Jem aagad (1) Isaa (2) pir Sadardin (3) Naasar Khushroo (4) pir Shams (5) maulanaa Roomi, evi ritnaa maanaso haqiqat na rastaa upar chaalyaa. Aa rasto naadaan ney maatey bahu mushkil chhe.
There is a verse of Sloko which states:
Satgur Kahere, jesaa jiv hove aapna
tesaa tu avar ne buj
jene paarkhu dekhyaa bhundakaa
teto aape hoyshe juthare.....
Meaning:
The True Guide says: You will perceive others according to your own nature. Whoever considers others as evil/vulgar will be proven false.
Think before you speak evil of someone.
To Kmaherali: Ya Ali madad.
I have asked for the book from the concerned scholars.
There is no mention of rumi as to be role model for ismailis.
What is English translation for the word naadan,it is foolish or innocent/ignorant.
May be word Murkha means foolish.
Are we living in 1903 or 2015.
Has Mhi mentioned rumi' s name in Farman n not in
speech.
If Imam ordered the selection and narrowed down to just to ruhani ginans of A Single Pir
Why do not you follow that farman.has MHI has negatated that farman.?
So all extract of deselected stuff is Nafarmani and ignoraning the Farman.
The extract of ginan is non ruhani maybe a moral value message.
You are wasting lot of time on those crap.
I ignore that.
Year 1903 was when litrecy would have been not more 20% and dissident with Koran n hajj stuff propagating.
Any name taken ,one does not have to jump into 1000 pages of shallow reading.
Why was Imam SMS farman on selective ginans not followed.
Who you consider yourself as naadan as you did not understand just two line of his farman
said in simple language.
There are certain material of Nasir khusraw to be ignored,Why do you jump into debate.
It is again ignoring the farman and guidance.
Then the debators can be called at Naadan.
If a sincere scholar based on Farman does a qualitative research.It can get conclusion of to much of non ruhani ginan and its cross debates with cunning outsider in that period resulted in wreaking of faith in few n they leaving ismailism.
Only if missionary of then IIS alumni of today junked the unselected stuff,the result would have been different.It took MHI nearly 15 years to reduce the volume of the stuff with resistance from no farmani Khojas.
Why MHI told in audience of most intelligent people in Harvard about Ignorance.??
WHY WHY WHY WHY.
I have asked for the book from the concerned scholars.
There is no mention of rumi as to be role model for ismailis.
What is English translation for the word naadan,it is foolish or innocent/ignorant.
May be word Murkha means foolish.
Are we living in 1903 or 2015.
Has Mhi mentioned rumi' s name in Farman n not in
speech.
If Imam ordered the selection and narrowed down to just to ruhani ginans of A Single Pir
Why do not you follow that farman.has MHI has negatated that farman.?
So all extract of deselected stuff is Nafarmani and ignoraning the Farman.
The extract of ginan is non ruhani maybe a moral value message.
You are wasting lot of time on those crap.
I ignore that.
Year 1903 was when litrecy would have been not more 20% and dissident with Koran n hajj stuff propagating.
Any name taken ,one does not have to jump into 1000 pages of shallow reading.
Why was Imam SMS farman on selective ginans not followed.
Who you consider yourself as naadan as you did not understand just two line of his farman
said in simple language.
There are certain material of Nasir khusraw to be ignored,Why do you jump into debate.
It is again ignoring the farman and guidance.
Then the debators can be called at Naadan.
If a sincere scholar based on Farman does a qualitative research.It can get conclusion of to much of non ruhani ginan and its cross debates with cunning outsider in that period resulted in wreaking of faith in few n they leaving ismailism.
Only if missionary of then IIS alumni of today junked the unselected stuff,the result would have been different.It took MHI nearly 15 years to reduce the volume of the stuff with resistance from no farmani Khojas.
Why MHI told in audience of most intelligent people in Harvard about Ignorance.??
WHY WHY WHY WHY.
Ya Ali Madad.
Yesterday I attended JK,guess what.a qasida of Rumi was recited and also its translation in
Gujarati.
I heard with interest, It looks like he was praying to Imam Shamsuddin and using the name
Of Shams Tabrizi as a front or cover name in it.
Close look may be needed to know it but not neccasary as we have more of current sayings of ALI to be understand deeper.
My respect for Rumi increases but opinion does not change.
Yesterday I attended JK,guess what.a qasida of Rumi was recited and also its translation in
Gujarati.
I heard with interest, It looks like he was praying to Imam Shamsuddin and using the name
Of Shams Tabrizi as a front or cover name in it.
Close look may be needed to know it but not neccasary as we have more of current sayings of ALI to be understand deeper.
My respect for Rumi increases but opinion does not change.
-
mazharshah
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:08 pm
nuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad.
Yesterday I attended JK,guess what.a qasida of Rumi was recited and also its translation in
Gujarati.
I heard with interest, It looks like he was praying to Imam Shamsuddin and using the name
Of Shams Tabrizi as a front or cover name in it.
Close look may be needed to know it but not neccasary as we have more of current sayings of ALI to be understand deeper.
My respect for Rumi increases but opinion does not change.
Look at Rumi's importance that one of his Qasida was recited in Jk of India, where as it is usual practice in many JK's of central Asian countries.
Read Masnavi of Rumi your opinion will change.