Dua Old and New - Asal Dua, Asal Ghat Pat Dua

Discussion on doctrinal issues
swamidada
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Post by swamidada »

With due respect to Sir Faqir Muhammad, I have a Dua booklet in Khojki printed by Ismailia Association for Pakistan in 1960, there is no mention of lizikrihi sujud. The new Dua was introduced in Pakistan in 1960/61.
Admin
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Post by Admin »

1960 is when Pakistan started reciting Wa Ta'ati

Find a Dua book of 1957, 1958, 1959 printed in Pakistan and lets see what it contains. 1960 is not representative since the person, whom I don't know, says that 1960 was the date when the Dua changed.

We already have the Karachi printed copy of 1960 with Lizikrihi Sujud and we already know that the Dua with Lizikrihi sujud was introduced in Madagascar with a Talika of Sultan Muhammad Shah and recited by Shah Karim himself in 1956.
swamidada
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:59 pm

Post by swamidada »

Admin wrote:1960 is when Pakistan started reciting Wa Ta'ati

Find a Dua book of 1957, 1958, 1959 printed in Pakistan and lets see what it contains. 1960 is not representative since the person, whom I don't know, says that 1960 was the date when the Dua changed.

We already have the Karachi printed copy of 1960 with Lizikrihi Sujud and we already know that the Dua with Lizikrihi sujud was introduced in Madagascar with a Talika of Sultan Muhammad Shah and recited by Shah Karim himself in 1956.
Past 3 days I was investigating. Let me produce my findings.
1. There aren't any books published in 1957/58/59 in Pakistan with lizikris sujjud.
2. I have a Dua book in Khojki, in my possession printed in 1960 by Ismailia Association for Pakistan which clearly states," Kheesh amar puthiyaan shah to jey huzur mein qabul kar Noor Mowlana Shah Karim Al Hussaini'. It is a proof that lizikri was not there in 1960.
3. I asked a senior who was in a group which was selected to recite Dua in Arabic in Karachi, confirmed that they were not taught to say lizikri but to recite Allahuma laka sujudi wa taa'ati.
4. As you mentioned, Dua was first introduced in Madagascar in 1956, but there is no proof it was introduced in Pakistan simultaneously.
5. African Ismailia Association did not had any arrangement to print Dua in Arabic at that time, therefore on their request Ismailia Association for Pakistan printed those copies on there behalf which some of them leaked out in Karachi creating confusion.
6. Important question is, Which Imam changed the wordings from lizikrhi to Allahuma.... was that Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah or Present Imam Shah Karim Al Hussaini?
7. A true Ismaili follow the Hidayat of Imam. When Imam changed from lizikrihi to Allahuma, an Ismaili should not argue or insist to say lizikrihi.

8. Some one provided me a copy of Dua with lizikrihi. BUT THERE IS NO MENTION OF YEAR. NO NAME OF COUNTRY IN WHICH COPIES WERE PRINTED. IT ONLY MENTIONS,"PUBLISHED BY SHIA IMAMI ISMAILIA ASSOCIATIONS FOR AFRICA". May be it is a handy work of an individual or some enthusiastic group (Admin may have copy of that edition). In that particular edition there is no mention of Ahl Bait (Punjtan Pak) in 6th part after Surah Ikhlas. Also in that edition the meaning of Aliyullah is given "Ali is from Allah".
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Post by Admin »

To your question "6. Important question is, Which Imam changed the wordings from lizikrhi to Allahuma.... was that Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah or Present Imam Shah Karim Al Hussaini? " the reply is None of them. The decision was taken by Ismailia Association between Kassamali Missionary and Shamshu Tejpar after Hazar Imam left the Conference saying the he did not want to see two different version of the Du'a recited by the Jamat and whoever they do the sujudo to, it always come back to the Imam.

Your not finding a book does not mean there is no book. It just means you are unable to find it. It is already known that there was a book in 1960.

Let me repeat, we are looking for the 1957 - 1959 books. There is no evidence that the new Dua of 1956 was limited to Africa. We know it was recited in Syria.

There is a Talika bringing the new Dua with Lizikrihi sujud. I have not seen any Talika changing it. I have searched and not found any.
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