Written Quran & Quran which speaks

st0necol · Post by **st0necol** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:10 pm

Why GOD sent four books on different prophets?

When he was hidden in this world.

Ok I've read somewhere on the forum written that Ali said, I was even there at the time of Jesus but I was hidden because the world wasn't ready at that time.

But at the time of Prophet Muhammad, why Quran was revealed when Hazrat Ali (The speaking Quran himself) was present and he knew Imamat will continue to guide people.

Those who firmly believed on Prophet Muhammad would have anyway listened to his sayings then why there was a need to send down Quran? And recommend it for the future generations? Where in our Tariqah, The Imam of the Time is the Speaking Quran for the Jamat and we listen to his Farmans as the current farman of GOD. And also he makes changes in his farman according to time.

I was listening to a waiz by Alwaiz Kamaluddin and he said that if the process of revelation of Quran continued till today, many Ayats would have been erased by now.

Now see.

Imam of the time can only interpret Quran and he asks us to live with the time but don't forget your fundamental points. Then why he kept the book on this Earth and now other sects are mis-interpreting Quran and making Islam a religion which supports Terrorism where it's not like that.

Saudi Arabia women are not allowed to drive because the government says that after the ban lifted, women will be freely mix with men and hence it's not according to Islam.

In the past, King Faisal tried to enforce Girls Education, then too religious establishment opposed and said it's not in Islam but he was strong enough to enforce it.

I mean making Islam a religion of low-level thinking and conservative-mind thinking where Islam is a religion of Peace and harmony, of brotherhood, of respecting all religions, of equality.

I still wonder why the Speaking Quran kept the written Quran which is now 1400 years old and many of the written things are not now according to the Situation or mis-interpretation.

His farmans are the words of Quran for us and we've to follow it.

Just like, in the past I've heard from my uncle, at the time of Sultan Mohammad Shah when he was celebrating his silver, golden jubilee or platinum jubilee, he said to the Jamat that I don't want any woman and man to be single after going from here. So they used to get married (by choice I guess). But when at the time of MHI, the leaders of the Jamat tried to do the same, Hazar Imam said what you guys are doing? Marriage is not a joke. Unless one is capable enough to take this responsibility, he should not marry.

See time changes, and like in Quran it's stated one can marry 4 times but now Hazar Imam said that I don't stop you from doing 2 marriages but I discourage it.

We say those who are simply following Quran without the Light (Imam of the Time) are astray (can we say that?) Then when they are astray even with the Quran in their hands then why GOD kept in on the Earth?

I hope someone would have got my question.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:37 pm

God had not sent only four books. There were many books sent by God to different prophets,though names of four are generally famous. Its just like for a student there is need of text book as well as teacher.
However just like Prophet Muhammad had said that Quran is with Ali and Ali is with Quran...so without Ali one can not understand Quran and will finally come with incorrect interpretation. Ginans are like tafseer of Quran. Ginans and Farmans helps in understanding Quran.

st0necol · Post by **st0necol** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:51 pm

But munir don't you think Ali is Allah then why he needs to send a book too ?

Those who believe him completely will even die on his command.

Then why he had to send the books?

Quran is with him spiritually.

Or if we say in the human form (in his mind).

He knows every single thing of Quran then why he made it into written form where it's impossible to correctly interpret Quran without Ali.?

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:04 pm

The book may helps in understanding the background and history. Like Every thing is vested in Manifest Imam. If some one will ask you how? from where you get this idea from? Then you can tell them from Quran and hadiths it is evident.
And another thing He had not made the Quran in written form. It was Usman, the third caliph who compiled it and today we have the same version.

st0necol · Post by **st0necol** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:15 pm

Hmm...so it was with Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in his heart?

and I read in the topic 'If Hazar Imam is GOD, who is satan'

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ngo+dajjal

There someone said that during the time of Hazrat Ali, perhaps Abu Bakr and the other two caliphs were satanic figures?

So if we see in the other sense, was it Satan who wanted to write the Quran and omit the 10 PARAS in Quran which relates to Imamat and mis-guide people? That is why today even those Muslims who recite 5 times Namaz, do fasting and do all the good deeds still are called extremists ? and against Peace and other religions?

They satisfy their own personal problems in the name of Jihad?

Can we say that?

Yeah, sure we learn our history from Quran and Ginans and History always give a lesson and Mowlana Hazir Imam guides us in the present regarding current issues of the world. Am I right? He wants us to learn Ginans, so does he want that we should first recognize our faith from those who were the best teachers of their time and then listen to MHI ? Because their teachings influence alot and gives us the motivating factor that if Pirs can, why not us?

st0necol · Post by **st0necol** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:31 pm

I feel, it's indeed an influence of Satan that even people having the Quran in their hands and Hafiz people or big Ulema could not recognize Ayats like 'And we've vested everything in the manifest Imam' or 'For every century there's a guide sent to you by Allah'

I feel sometimes that our souls in the past must have been very good in deeds thats why we're born in this Faith. (does anyone agree?)

And I may come to this statement that Ali revealed all the basic guidance which is needed to spend a proper life for e.g. about how to treat others, what things are allowed in Islam and what are it's Traditions and about information on Sex and etc.

And then Imam of the Time deals with the current issues which are concerning the Jamat and so he commands them to do things according to the situation.

Now ofcourse Imam will never say in the Jamat or anywhere about the (s*x) topic. Which was right at that time is right today too (ethics). And in the Jamat he can't discuss such sensitive issues so thats why he has written all the things in the written form so that people first get the basic knowledge and then come to the upper level of Islam.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:04 pm

st0necol wrote:Hmm...so it was with Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in his heart?

and I read in the topic 'If Hazar Imam is GOD, who is satan'

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ngo+dajjal

There someone said that during the time of Hazrat Ali, perhaps Abu Bakr and the other two caliphs were satanic figures?

So if we see in the other sense, was it Satan who wanted to write the Quran and omit the 10 PARAS in Quran which relates to Imamat and mis-guide people? That is why today even those Muslims who recite 5 times Namaz, do fasting and do all the good deeds still are called extremists ? and against Peace and other religions?

They satisfy their own personal problems in the name of Jihad?

Can we say that?

Yeah, sure we learn our history from Quran and Ginans and History always give a lesson and Mowlana Hazir Imam guides us in the present regarding current issues of the world. Am I right? He wants us to learn Ginans, so does he want that we should first recognize our faith from those who were the best teachers of their time and then listen to MHI ? Because their teachings influence alot and gives us the motivating factor that if Pirs can, why not us?

Many Shia muslims curse and say abusive words to first 3 caliphs. Our Imam not wishes us to do the same so I think its unappropriate to say that first 3 caliphs were manifestation of Satan.
Yeah its indeed influence of Satan that people call themselves that they have good knowledge of Quran yet they supports terrorism.
Mostly narrow minded people misuse Quranic verses for their own purpose and misguide and brain wash other people.
They tell them if you will kill non muslim, you will make God happy and will get place in paradise.
By looking at this situation one should remember what Prophet (P.B.U.H) had said in Gadir-e-Khum about Ahl-e-bait.
As for compilation of Quran there is Farman about it in KIM 1. If you can refer it, then it will give much better understanding.

st0necol · Post by **st0necol** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:10 pm

Is KIM 1 available on net?

Thanks for the information.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:51 am

You are welcome.It is in Gujarati. May be you can get it from your JK library.

st0necol · Post by **st0necol** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:51 am

If it's in Gujrati

Then I'll stay away cos I can't read it lol.