For those who haven't heard Obama's speech in Cairo, I would suggest that you take a look at it. He spoke very highly of the Muslim world and it's inventions, mentioned Al-Azhar University twice in the speech, and quoted the Holy Quran thrice.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/image ... inning.pdf
Obama's speech in Cairo, Egypt
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Mehreen1221
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Just political rhetoric to fool the other side…typical bait and switch tactics and if he is suspected otherwise he will get shot by some christian fundamentalists…
…y' know, forget the past, it does not really make the difference on the ground…just don’t let them f*** your present and future…
*** Edited by ADMIN - see note below
…y' know, forget the past, it does not really make the difference on the ground…just don’t let them f*** your present and future…
*** Edited by ADMIN - see note below
The speech was brilliant!
Not only has he used the same Ayats from Quran as Hazar Imam used in Tajikistan many years ago but he has distanced himself openly from the position taken by the previous president.
The fact that he has surrounded himself by many competent people shows in his speech.
Lets pray that he resolves at least the Palestine situation and puts an end to the arrogance and abuses of the Israelis.
Not only has he used the same Ayats from Quran as Hazar Imam used in Tajikistan many years ago but he has distanced himself openly from the position taken by the previous president.
The fact that he has surrounded himself by many competent people shows in his speech.
Lets pray that he resolves at least the Palestine situation and puts an end to the arrogance and abuses of the Israelis.
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Mehreen1221
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Well…Obama, Osama or Allama …or any one individual don’t matter…I think that this puppet is seemingly surrounded by just a little bit less evil people than in the last grand ole party of thieves …but so what? The real power structure and policy makers in the U.S. are not there…elementarily speaking, it is in a so called congress with two houses full of white collars thugs and robbers and in a judiciary which has been appointed by the leaders of the executive gangs in the Whitehouse and approved by the big congress which is ultimately controlled by big corporations, bankers, capitalist and other ideologues and swindlers…and these organizations are controlled by the same people in the government…so it is like a "mili bhagat"... a grand syndicate…not a real democrazy, it actually has never been…just the illusion of it…America has a long history of deceiving, manipulating, and exploiting the mindset of its own population…specially when there are military interventions are concerned…including both World Wars, Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan/Pakistan and in all the ones in The Arab Homeland.
My point is that the real policy making is not in a president’s power only…he is actually just a speaker of the real power brokers behind the closed doors…and you know, they’ve been up to no good…
I see, there is a mass population in the U.S. and else where who is sort of living with a false sense of ‘hope’ for their problems to be solved overnight, kinda miraculously by this new guy….but you know, the light at the end of the tunnel could be an onrushing train….
Anyways, words are words; actions are what should be counted…so any actions and results of those actions by this guy in the Whitehouse worth mentioning here so far?
My point is that the real policy making is not in a president’s power only…he is actually just a speaker of the real power brokers behind the closed doors…and you know, they’ve been up to no good…
I see, there is a mass population in the U.S. and else where who is sort of living with a false sense of ‘hope’ for their problems to be solved overnight, kinda miraculously by this new guy….but you know, the light at the end of the tunnel could be an onrushing train….
Anyways, words are words; actions are what should be counted…so any actions and results of those actions by this guy in the Whitehouse worth mentioning here so far?
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shiraz.virani
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Anyways, words are words; actions are what should be counted…so any actions and results of those actions by this guy in the Whitehouse worth mentioning here so far?
change doesnt happen overnight, its not like an instant coffee
but what this 1st african american president is trying to do is bridge the gap between the islamic world and the west which our imam is doing since past 51 years of his imamat
obama being brought up in a muslim family knows what islam is all about and what it teaches, give him sometime and insha allah we'll see some change
and politics is everywhere, be it in government or in our jamat khana...bringing change takes time
Good afternoon. I am honored to be in the timeless city of Cairo and to be hosted by two remarkable institutions. For over a thousand years, al-Azhar has, had stood as a beacon of Islamic learning. And for over a century, Cairo University has been a source of Egypt's advancement. Together, you represent the harmony between tradition and progress.
……..
As a young man, I worked in Chicago communities where many found dignity and peace in their Muslim faith. As a student of history, I also know civilization's debt to Islam. It was Islam at places like al-Azhar that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's Renaissance and Enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities...
(APPLAUSE)
It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra, our magnetic compass and tools of navigation, our mastery of pens and printing, our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed. Islamic culture has given us majestic arches and soaring spires, timeless poetry and cherished music, elegant calligraphy and places of peaceful contemplation. And throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality.
……..
As a young man, I worked in Chicago communities where many found dignity and peace in their Muslim faith. As a student of history, I also know civilization's debt to Islam. It was Islam at places like al-Azhar that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's Renaissance and Enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities...
(APPLAUSE)
It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra, our magnetic compass and tools of navigation, our mastery of pens and printing, our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed. Islamic culture has given us majestic arches and soaring spires, timeless poetry and cherished music, elegant calligraphy and places of peaceful contemplation. And throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality.
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Mehreen1221
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shiraz.virani
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HOW THE WORLD IS SHAPED BY THE "CLASH OF IGNORANCE" - by The Aga Khan
A pluralistic attitude is not something with which people are born. An instinctive fear of what is different is perhaps a more common human trait. But such fear is a condition which can be transcended — and that is why teaching about pluralism is such an important objective — at every educational level.
In the final analysis, no nation, no race, no individual has a monopoly of intelligence or virtue. If we are to pursue the ideal of meritocracy in human endeavour, then its most perfect form will grow out of a respect for human pluralism, so that we can harness the very best contributions from whomever and wherever they may come.
President Obama cited his own country as a relevant example when he said last week in Cairo, and I quote: “The United States has been one of the greatest sources of progress that the world has ever known … we are shaped by every culture, drawn from every end of the earth….”
When peoples think pluralistically, there is no limit to what they can do together, joining forces across a wide variety of divides — and even across long distances — so that a university based in the far western reaches of North America can join hands and hearts with institutions which are, quite precisely, on the opposite side of the planet.
As the world shrinks, and as contact among diverse peoples increases, some would argue that we face an inevitable “clash of civilisations.” My own conviction, however, is that we face today “a clash of ignorances.”
It continually amazes me, for example, how little is understood about the Muslim civilisations and cultures in the non-Islamic world and how little is taught. When President Obama described the richness of that history in his Cairo speech, he was telling a story which is unfamiliar to many in the West.
A pluralistic commitment will call upon educators, everywhere, to address such dangerous 'ignorances,' in this and in other fields.
This article is extracted from a speech by the Aga Khan during the graduation ceremony of the University of Alberta, Canada, on June 9, 2009.
A pluralistic attitude is not something with which people are born. An instinctive fear of what is different is perhaps a more common human trait. But such fear is a condition which can be transcended — and that is why teaching about pluralism is such an important objective — at every educational level.
In the final analysis, no nation, no race, no individual has a monopoly of intelligence or virtue. If we are to pursue the ideal of meritocracy in human endeavour, then its most perfect form will grow out of a respect for human pluralism, so that we can harness the very best contributions from whomever and wherever they may come.
President Obama cited his own country as a relevant example when he said last week in Cairo, and I quote: “The United States has been one of the greatest sources of progress that the world has ever known … we are shaped by every culture, drawn from every end of the earth….”
When peoples think pluralistically, there is no limit to what they can do together, joining forces across a wide variety of divides — and even across long distances — so that a university based in the far western reaches of North America can join hands and hearts with institutions which are, quite precisely, on the opposite side of the planet.
As the world shrinks, and as contact among diverse peoples increases, some would argue that we face an inevitable “clash of civilisations.” My own conviction, however, is that we face today “a clash of ignorances.”
It continually amazes me, for example, how little is understood about the Muslim civilisations and cultures in the non-Islamic world and how little is taught. When President Obama described the richness of that history in his Cairo speech, he was telling a story which is unfamiliar to many in the West.
A pluralistic commitment will call upon educators, everywhere, to address such dangerous 'ignorances,' in this and in other fields.
This article is extracted from a speech by the Aga Khan during the graduation ceremony of the University of Alberta, Canada, on June 9, 2009.
As always, what a magnificent speech by the Aga Khan.
He is definitely in the forefront and one of the fewest around to bridge the differences between Muslim world and the western world.
Though, Aga Khan is only quoting president Obama in his speech but that is probably more than enough credit it can get and hope that it inspires in people.
Biryani.
He is definitely in the forefront and one of the fewest around to bridge the differences between Muslim world and the western world.
Though, Aga Khan is only quoting president Obama in his speech but that is probably more than enough credit it can get and hope that it inspires in people.
Biryani.
so where is this going now?...eh? same shit, different man...
As a Pakistani I demand that for each Pakistani dead by the U.S. aggression in Pakistan same amount of people with the same ages should be killed in U.S. Pakistani Military should come to U.S. and kill those Americans for justice to be done….or else Pakistan has to be disintegrated and India or Russia should take over the area…no compromise. Russia needed the access to the warm waters of Indian Ocean anyway....
look at those poor people, those innocent children with so little they have... and being fired upon with high tech weapons... just imagine yourself with your family there... and then wonder about this new man with the feet of clay...
I swear to God, this will not stop, atleast not by this man and might get even more worse...
As a Pakistani I demand that for each Pakistani dead by the U.S. aggression in Pakistan same amount of people with the same ages should be killed in U.S. Pakistani Military should come to U.S. and kill those Americans for justice to be done….or else Pakistan has to be disintegrated and India or Russia should take over the area…no compromise. Russia needed the access to the warm waters of Indian Ocean anyway....
look at those poor people, those innocent children with so little they have... and being fired upon with high tech weapons... just imagine yourself with your family there... and then wonder about this new man with the feet of clay...
I swear to God, this will not stop, atleast not by this man and might get even more worse...
Last edited by Biryani on Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
We should judge him with his actions as commander in chief of the U.S. Army (professional killers) … every single day tens or more civilians around the world are getting killed by them under his watch. It’s been almost 6 months since he is in the office.
Normally in U.S. for a wrongful death by the government and big corporations, tens of millions of dollar are paid on each life as a retribution… does anyone know how much money is given to the survivors of those dead civilians (for at least the manslaughters or negligence for the argument sake) by the U.S. government? Is he even, sincerely thinking, leave alone doing something, to stop these mass murders of civilians?? I think NOT, because that is what they are there for in the first place. atleast these cowards should come face to face to fight...
Normally in U.S. for a wrongful death by the government and big corporations, tens of millions of dollar are paid on each life as a retribution… does anyone know how much money is given to the survivors of those dead civilians (for at least the manslaughters or negligence for the argument sake) by the U.S. government? Is he even, sincerely thinking, leave alone doing something, to stop these mass murders of civilians?? I think NOT, because that is what they are there for in the first place. atleast these cowards should come face to face to fight...
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shiraz.virani
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so where is this going now?...eh? same shit, different man...
As a Pakistani I demand that for each Pakistani dead by the U.S. aggression in Pakistan same amount of people with the same ages should be killed in U.S. Pakistani Military should come to U.S. and kill those Americans for justice to be done….or else Pakistan has to be disintegrated and India or Russia should take over the area…no compromise. Russia needed the access to the warm waters of Indian Ocean anyway....
look at those poor people, those innocent children with so little they have... and being fired upon with high tech weapons... just imagine yourself with your family there... and then wonder about this new man with the feet of clay...
I swear to God, this will not stop, atleast not by this man and might get even more worse...
i will give you a very short example, the war on vietnam left that country paralised, people had no food/shelter/clothing ....at that moment this country[USA] gave shelter to the people of vietnam
today the vietnamese people make 12% population of usa
if you are soooo concerned about your country and people of your country why dont go and live in your country ??????????
i understand the pain of those who are slained in this war and i pray that their soul rest in peace but you shouldnt forget that if those who are responsible are spared then we will see 9/11 , the attack in mumbai etc etc almost every day
what is happening in your country today ??? not even 1 mosque is spared !! why are you mum on that ??
what is your govt doing ??? are the people in your country safe ??????
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shiraz.virani
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when the terrorist attacked taj mahal hotel in mumbai....what did i do ?? or what did my govt do ???
NOTHING !!!
then how can i expect change ???
in order to change something we have to change first and this could happen only and only if INDIA/PAK gets united
partition was the bigggggggggggggest mistake and today we see why
what iam saying is , if you wanna blame someone you cannot say only this country is responsible....we got bad people in our system too !!!
NOTHING !!!
then how can i expect change ???
in order to change something we have to change first and this could happen only and only if INDIA/PAK gets united
partition was the bigggggggggggggest mistake and today we see why
what iam saying is , if you wanna blame someone you cannot say only this country is responsible....we got bad people in our system too !!!
…Shiraz. What are you, nuts?
First, I just don’t get your point about Vietnam…and its people’s migration to U.S.
What are you justifying here for U.S.? Even U.S. population today is ashamed of that legacy…And how can that situation be compared here? Do you think, U.S. should let Pakistanis make 5% if not 12% of its population just like Vietnamies, because they are bombing Pakistan this time?...by the way, the south Vietnamese who came to U.S. before and during the war were on the U.S. side in the war, so U.S. had to evacuate them, by giving them that moral support and favor in exchange of their support and justification of the war or U.S. would have been forced to get out of the war sooner…so it is not something for anyone to brag about U.S.
And, what about mumbai? Man, you people have 3500+ deaths every year on your railway tracks…like of chickens. First, you should worry about those then about just a bunch of foreigners killed by their own spy networks CIA and Mosad, to bring India in the mess that they have created…and justify the games they’ve been playing…
I just don’t feel like saying anything about 9/11 ‘accidents’…so to not give it any more credit of worthy to talk about anymore. it was a pretty obvious thing even for a 12 years old child to come to the right conclusion contrary to what they say.
I travel to Pakistan and India at least 3 or 4 times a year and spend at least couple of months or more in Pakistan during that and what do you think will be solved if I live there permanently? That is the stupidest thing anyone could have ever told me… good and bad people are everywhere, but the current situation is definitely not triggered and carried on by our system. It’s been forced upon us and I do realize that our system has been weak and has issues but not with this magnitude.
Shiraz, I would appreciate if your response to me is relevant to my specific queries like in my last post about repercussion of the U.S. actions with civilians...
By the way, hypothetically, the idea of Pakistan being divided between the countries that can at least defend themselves against aggressive tricks of our common enemy is not so bad…eh? West and northwest (Baluchistan and NW frontier) should be under Russia, southern and eastern parts (Sind and Punjab) should join with India. Russia should, might as well, come back to Tajikistan and Afghanistan to make seamless transition… now, let's see who wants to fight and kill?
anyways, let us not lose the sight of the topic with bigger and irrelevant debates. I guess I was partly off too.
First, I just don’t get your point about Vietnam…and its people’s migration to U.S.
What are you justifying here for U.S.? Even U.S. population today is ashamed of that legacy…And how can that situation be compared here? Do you think, U.S. should let Pakistanis make 5% if not 12% of its population just like Vietnamies, because they are bombing Pakistan this time?...by the way, the south Vietnamese who came to U.S. before and during the war were on the U.S. side in the war, so U.S. had to evacuate them, by giving them that moral support and favor in exchange of their support and justification of the war or U.S. would have been forced to get out of the war sooner…so it is not something for anyone to brag about U.S.
And, what about mumbai? Man, you people have 3500+ deaths every year on your railway tracks…like of chickens. First, you should worry about those then about just a bunch of foreigners killed by their own spy networks CIA and Mosad, to bring India in the mess that they have created…and justify the games they’ve been playing…
I just don’t feel like saying anything about 9/11 ‘accidents’…so to not give it any more credit of worthy to talk about anymore. it was a pretty obvious thing even for a 12 years old child to come to the right conclusion contrary to what they say.
I travel to Pakistan and India at least 3 or 4 times a year and spend at least couple of months or more in Pakistan during that and what do you think will be solved if I live there permanently? That is the stupidest thing anyone could have ever told me… good and bad people are everywhere, but the current situation is definitely not triggered and carried on by our system. It’s been forced upon us and I do realize that our system has been weak and has issues but not with this magnitude.
Shiraz, I would appreciate if your response to me is relevant to my specific queries like in my last post about repercussion of the U.S. actions with civilians...
By the way, hypothetically, the idea of Pakistan being divided between the countries that can at least defend themselves against aggressive tricks of our common enemy is not so bad…eh? West and northwest (Baluchistan and NW frontier) should be under Russia, southern and eastern parts (Sind and Punjab) should join with India. Russia should, might as well, come back to Tajikistan and Afghanistan to make seamless transition… now, let's see who wants to fight and kill?
anyways, let us not lose the sight of the topic with bigger and irrelevant debates. I guess I was partly off too.
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shiraz.virani
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what has been proved yet ??I just don’t feel like saying anything about 9/11 ‘accidents’…so to not give it any more credit of worthy to talk about anymore. it was a pretty obvious thing even for a 12 years old child to come to the right conclusion contrary to what they say.
BALLS !!!
my point is if at all you are sooo moved by the current situation of pakistan, why dont you go and live with them....if you cant do anything ,atleast you'll be there by their side !!!I travel to Pakistan and India at least 3 or 4 times a year and spend at least couple of months or more in Pakistan during that and what do you think will be solved if I live there permanently? That is the stupidest thing anyone could have ever told me… good and bad people are everywhere, but the current situation is definitely not triggered and carried on by our system. It’s been forced upon us and I do realize that our system has been weak and has issues but not with this magnitude.
if you dont want to then stop crying like a baby and let this african american do what hez doing.
Shiraz, I would appreciate if your response to me is relevant to my specific queries like in my last post about repercussion of the U.S. actions with civilians...
brother everyday so many innocent citizens die in pakistan due to suicide bombs etc etc people are even scared to go to mosque to offer salat....why ?? because there is lapse in security in pakistan.......every single politician is corrupt from top to bottom and yet you are here talking about those who died is air strikes, what about the people dying in your own country everyday due to some terrorist violence ?????
what iam saying is its easy to point fingers on any country but we should first look what our own country is doing !!
is your govt nuts to go in swat valley ??
this is what is going to happen on the day when pakistan/india as usual will come and claim kashmir to be rightfully theirs....partition was the biiiiiiiiiigeesssssst mistake in the history of HINDUSTAN/BHARAT .By the way, hypothetically, the idea of Pakistan being divided between the countries that can at least defend themselves against aggressive tricks of our common enemy is not so bad…eh? West and northwest (Baluchistan and NW frontier) should be under Russia, southern and eastern parts (Sind and Punjab) should join with India. Russia should, might as well, come back to Tajikistan and Afghanistan to make seamless transition… now, let's see who wants to fight and kill?
exactly !anyways, let us not lose the sight of the topic with bigger and irrelevant debates. I guess I was partly off too.
now stay on the topic and stop abusing our president
Shiraz,
While I am in support of the current American President, especially in comparison to the person he followed, the President should be held accountable and under criticism. If we waste time gawking at the fact that America had its first African American President (more specifically, half Afro-American, half Caucasian) rather than focusing on his specific actions change will never occur.
While I am in support of the current American President, especially in comparison to the person he followed, the President should be held accountable and under criticism. If we waste time gawking at the fact that America had its first African American President (more specifically, half Afro-American, half Caucasian) rather than focusing on his specific actions change will never occur.
Exactly! Nothing has been proven yet…but you’re the one who brought it up here for some justification…right? I did not mention it here….you know you’re jumping from one issue to the other like a retarded monkey, once you were on Vietnam, then Mumbai, then you want me to live in Pakistan just because I'm raising a pakistani issue, then suicide bombings, then corruption…but you’re not a retarded monkey, you are just an ignorant one and it’s not just your fault either…maybe someday you will realize whose fault it is.
and what difference does it make if I physically live Pakistan? Tell me how the situation will be any differ than now just because of me -->“nobody” there…being on some one’s side is not the physical matter…I could be on their or on anybody’s side in principle…that’s what matters and you have no idea why I live in Europe or North America..let me ask you something kiddo, why does not Aga Khan live in Afghanistan and anywhere there is a problem and he is worried about it and working about it?…a man can have different reasons and interest for wherever he wants to live at, just because if someone is worried about somewhere does not mean he needs to just start living there, I can not believe I am explaining this to you. Think about it for two minutes before you rebuttal on this with me…
…crying like a baby? How exactly did you get that idea? I mean all I am doing is typing, I am ,may be, little enraged but not crying, and so what even if I am crying , its not for the wrong reasons…you know, I can slap you back with this type of rhetoric’s but what’s the point?
These whole “terrorism” phenomenon is actually fabricated by the U.S. after 2001…tell me if you had heard or read anywhere before year 2000 about these so called suicide bombings anywhere outside Palestine and Sri-Lanka by Tamil Tigers? Bring me that info if you can. that will give you something to wonder about why weren't there any such things in all these decades before the current one...and do you even think about the motives behind these blasts or bomings? of course there is none in most of them because they are perpetrated by the people of whose president you think I'm abusing...there is no such thing as "Al Qaida" or whatever...it was just the bush's bogeyman.
and you know what they are doing down there in Guantanamo Bay, Romania, Poland, and other parts of Eastern Europe where those lowlife governments are living off the American bribes…? There are prison systems with labs where they are making human booby traps…with mind altering technologies and medicines. And then send one of them to either sunni mosque or market and blow him off remotely…and then send one in shia mosque and there you go, fire and revenge game is on…this is just the tip of the iceberg I told you about…there are tons of allegations and reports out there with proofs...I will need days to go in details about the rest of their shit…just this week only, in Afghanistan and Pakistan, close to 230 civilians including children and women were killed by NATO forces, it’s in your own news, go check it out. When was that type of civilian casualties before 2000….why don’t you just gather some numbers about civilian deaths around the world where U.S. military and it’s allies are involved and compare those numbers with the ones of period before their involvement.
Ok, corruption! Man…where have you been living since your birth? Still in Hyderabad?
I’ll tell you what, the whole world is corrupt. Some parts of Europe are just a little bit less corrupt for their own sake. These people are educated and their politicians can’t escape so easily from the system of ‘checks and balance’ in place. Still Britain is an exception due to the heavy influence from the American side. Corrupt politicians on whichever side are not the root of this problem. It is the foreign policy makers in the U.S. and the people in charge who are implementing those policies….well, that can be considered a type of corruption since there are some material and other intangible benefits for these policy makers out if it but not the type of corruption you are referring to.
Anyways, so going back to the original issue…what is this president of yours doing that you think I’m trying to stop him for or 'abusing' him with? What foreign policy changes has he made so far? if there is anything on his desk that is worth mentioning here? And what is your point of throwing the race card here? What is that have to do with anything? Are you one of those dumb voters who voted for him just because of his race? LOL…please grow up! No wonder why this world is going where it’s going…
Anyways, I’m not gonna respond anymore to your illogical and irrelevant remarks.
and what difference does it make if I physically live Pakistan? Tell me how the situation will be any differ than now just because of me -->“nobody” there…being on some one’s side is not the physical matter…I could be on their or on anybody’s side in principle…that’s what matters and you have no idea why I live in Europe or North America..let me ask you something kiddo, why does not Aga Khan live in Afghanistan and anywhere there is a problem and he is worried about it and working about it?…a man can have different reasons and interest for wherever he wants to live at, just because if someone is worried about somewhere does not mean he needs to just start living there, I can not believe I am explaining this to you. Think about it for two minutes before you rebuttal on this with me…
…crying like a baby? How exactly did you get that idea? I mean all I am doing is typing, I am ,may be, little enraged but not crying, and so what even if I am crying , its not for the wrong reasons…you know, I can slap you back with this type of rhetoric’s but what’s the point?
These whole “terrorism” phenomenon is actually fabricated by the U.S. after 2001…tell me if you had heard or read anywhere before year 2000 about these so called suicide bombings anywhere outside Palestine and Sri-Lanka by Tamil Tigers? Bring me that info if you can. that will give you something to wonder about why weren't there any such things in all these decades before the current one...and do you even think about the motives behind these blasts or bomings? of course there is none in most of them because they are perpetrated by the people of whose president you think I'm abusing...there is no such thing as "Al Qaida" or whatever...it was just the bush's bogeyman.
and you know what they are doing down there in Guantanamo Bay, Romania, Poland, and other parts of Eastern Europe where those lowlife governments are living off the American bribes…? There are prison systems with labs where they are making human booby traps…with mind altering technologies and medicines. And then send one of them to either sunni mosque or market and blow him off remotely…and then send one in shia mosque and there you go, fire and revenge game is on…this is just the tip of the iceberg I told you about…there are tons of allegations and reports out there with proofs...I will need days to go in details about the rest of their shit…just this week only, in Afghanistan and Pakistan, close to 230 civilians including children and women were killed by NATO forces, it’s in your own news, go check it out. When was that type of civilian casualties before 2000….why don’t you just gather some numbers about civilian deaths around the world where U.S. military and it’s allies are involved and compare those numbers with the ones of period before their involvement.
Ok, corruption! Man…where have you been living since your birth? Still in Hyderabad?
I’ll tell you what, the whole world is corrupt. Some parts of Europe are just a little bit less corrupt for their own sake. These people are educated and their politicians can’t escape so easily from the system of ‘checks and balance’ in place. Still Britain is an exception due to the heavy influence from the American side. Corrupt politicians on whichever side are not the root of this problem. It is the foreign policy makers in the U.S. and the people in charge who are implementing those policies….well, that can be considered a type of corruption since there are some material and other intangible benefits for these policy makers out if it but not the type of corruption you are referring to.
Anyways, so going back to the original issue…what is this president of yours doing that you think I’m trying to stop him for or 'abusing' him with? What foreign policy changes has he made so far? if there is anything on his desk that is worth mentioning here? And what is your point of throwing the race card here? What is that have to do with anything? Are you one of those dumb voters who voted for him just because of his race? LOL…please grow up! No wonder why this world is going where it’s going…
Anyways, I’m not gonna respond anymore to your illogical and irrelevant remarks.
Last edited by Biryani on Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:17 pm, edited 15 times in total.
By the way, I did not mean to offend any Pakistani or anybody by putting out such fictional theory about dismemberment of Pakistan…I think, Russia and India might not even be interested in taking the slices of the pie of Pakistan. I was just putting my adventurism out here but in reality it is not just that simple and I’m not hoping for that either, hopefully things will work out better for everyone…sooner or later one way or the other.
Obama's promise of a new beginning now hollow By Joseph L. Galloway
Who stole our change?
Who hijacked a popular uprising that was going to put a stop to business as usual in Washington, D.C.?
What happened to Barack Obama on his way to the White House?
The Republicans have been so busy trying to paint President Obama as a socialist, as a radical, as a Marxist, as a Muslim, as the Devil, that they haven't even noticed that he has become one of them.
What a difference a year can make. A year ago Barack Obama was on the campaign trail, promising an American electorate disheartened and disgusted by eight years of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney that he was going to change everything if he was elected President.
He would be the new broom, sweeping out the dirt, collecting the trash, and fixing everything that was broken and tarnished and perverted in our government, in our nation's capital, in our White House.
He swept into office on a high tide of good will and anticipation. He was going to fix Wall Street. He was going to end the war in Iraq. He was going to bring a new era of transparency to government. He was going to stimulate a faltering economy and give new hope to a shrinking, frightened middle class. He was going to close the prison at Guantanamo and end the torture policies of his predecessors. There was even a hope that we would investigate how we went wrong and who ordered it.
He came to town on a white horse, riding a staggering wave of popular approval in the polls, a golden leader in a golden moment with a golden opportunity, and then he did what? Nothing much. Nothing different.
Oh, he can still talk the talk and he does that incessantly. But he seemingly can't walk the walk. He may still sound like a revolutionary but more and more he looks and acts like George W. Bush, albeit a George W. Bush who can speak a complete sentence in the English language.
Obama's approval ratings are beginning to unwind and begin a long downward spiral among those who had believed in the promises of change. There was a golden moment when change was possible, but it is gone now.
There was one thing Obama absolutely had to do, even before tackling an economic meltdown and the Wall Street and big bank rip-offs:
He had to reassure Americans that we all live under the rule of law; that no one by virtue of holding the highest offices in the land, or having the biggest bank account, is above the law.
It was incumbent on new President Obama to step back and let justice be done. Let the investigators do their job, Not only to let justice be done but let justice be seen to be done.
But no. He said he wanted to focus on the future, not revisit the past. He needed to get moving on stimulating a floundering economy. And he screwed that up, too, reaching out to the very pirates who had looted their stockholders, their own companies, their own country to find someone to appoint as Treasury Secretary, thus reassuring Wall Street that he wasn't going to turn over any apple carts.
He declared that we, as a nation and people, would no longer torture our enemies and suspected enemies; would no longer lock them up and throw away the key; would no longer violate our own laws and those of the international conventions governing warfare.
But he trooped over to the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters to reassure those who had "only followed orders" when they tortured and abused helpless prisoners that they would never face justice. Nor would those who gave those illegal orders.
He promised to release another big batch of torture photos from our concentration camps in Afghanistan and Iraq and then reneged on that promise under pressure from the national security mavens.
His promises of transparency in government weren't worth a pitcher of warm spit. He sent the new, cleaner Justice Department lawyers into court to use the same limp arguments of national security to ask judges to back off on doing their jobs.
And bit-by-bit the possibility of change disappeared; bit-by-bit the hope of a renewed and reinvigorated American democracy and way of government faded away. Those who had held a dream in their hand closed their hand and crushed it.
Who stole our change?
Who hijacked a popular uprising that was going to put a stop to business as usual in Washington, D.C.?
What happened to Barack Obama on his way to the White House?
The Republicans have been so busy trying to paint President Obama as a socialist, as a radical, as a Marxist, as a Muslim, as the Devil, that they haven't even noticed that he has become one of them.
What a difference a year can make. A year ago Barack Obama was on the campaign trail, promising an American electorate disheartened and disgusted by eight years of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney that he was going to change everything if he was elected President.
He would be the new broom, sweeping out the dirt, collecting the trash, and fixing everything that was broken and tarnished and perverted in our government, in our nation's capital, in our White House.
He swept into office on a high tide of good will and anticipation. He was going to fix Wall Street. He was going to end the war in Iraq. He was going to bring a new era of transparency to government. He was going to stimulate a faltering economy and give new hope to a shrinking, frightened middle class. He was going to close the prison at Guantanamo and end the torture policies of his predecessors. There was even a hope that we would investigate how we went wrong and who ordered it.
He came to town on a white horse, riding a staggering wave of popular approval in the polls, a golden leader in a golden moment with a golden opportunity, and then he did what? Nothing much. Nothing different.
Oh, he can still talk the talk and he does that incessantly. But he seemingly can't walk the walk. He may still sound like a revolutionary but more and more he looks and acts like George W. Bush, albeit a George W. Bush who can speak a complete sentence in the English language.
Obama's approval ratings are beginning to unwind and begin a long downward spiral among those who had believed in the promises of change. There was a golden moment when change was possible, but it is gone now.
There was one thing Obama absolutely had to do, even before tackling an economic meltdown and the Wall Street and big bank rip-offs:
He had to reassure Americans that we all live under the rule of law; that no one by virtue of holding the highest offices in the land, or having the biggest bank account, is above the law.
It was incumbent on new President Obama to step back and let justice be done. Let the investigators do their job, Not only to let justice be done but let justice be seen to be done.
But no. He said he wanted to focus on the future, not revisit the past. He needed to get moving on stimulating a floundering economy. And he screwed that up, too, reaching out to the very pirates who had looted their stockholders, their own companies, their own country to find someone to appoint as Treasury Secretary, thus reassuring Wall Street that he wasn't going to turn over any apple carts.
He declared that we, as a nation and people, would no longer torture our enemies and suspected enemies; would no longer lock them up and throw away the key; would no longer violate our own laws and those of the international conventions governing warfare.
But he trooped over to the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters to reassure those who had "only followed orders" when they tortured and abused helpless prisoners that they would never face justice. Nor would those who gave those illegal orders.
He promised to release another big batch of torture photos from our concentration camps in Afghanistan and Iraq and then reneged on that promise under pressure from the national security mavens.
His promises of transparency in government weren't worth a pitcher of warm spit. He sent the new, cleaner Justice Department lawyers into court to use the same limp arguments of national security to ask judges to back off on doing their jobs.
And bit-by-bit the possibility of change disappeared; bit-by-bit the hope of a renewed and reinvigorated American democracy and way of government faded away. Those who had held a dream in their hand closed their hand and crushed it.
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shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
You know, Poop has to come out and it goes in to the toilet and then it gets flushed out and ass gets wiped. But you are the type who drops it on the floor and spread it on the sink and in the bath tub…and all over yourself and then you just come out in the public.
brother scat+man , i dint knew you have such fantasies as well , anywayz all i said was instead of shouting like a cheap prostitute you should actually do something for themnow shouting on this forum against president obama will not take us anywhere...if at all you are sooooo concerned about the people of afghanistan you should go there and support them in their good and bad
why are you simply wasting your precious time in blaming someone when the menace in afghanistan is there since 8-10 years
plus afghanistan is more peaceful than compared to pakistan , the amount of people died in pakistan due to suicide attacks is wayyyyyyyyyyy more than people killed by US army
stop playing the blame game and once again i repeat if you wanna do something useful for the people of afghanistan ............do something that will benefit them
leave the blame game on our politicians
iam not ignorant nor i was, i dont like people like you who are good for nothing who simply come here and talk the talk.....have enough courage to make a difference
i love pakistan, i have been to pakistan and i feel sorry for those who died in the recent suicide attacks ....it is really very heartening to even imagine how a window would be living after her hubby's death, how a child might be surviving after he/she lost his/her parents ....instead of wasting our time here lets do something that makes a difference
Ok, so now you think I’m shouting? I wonder about how and why you are getting these impressions of me. I think all I’m doing is criticizing something or someone with my writing and it may sound that I’m angry or frustrated about it…but not shouting and crying?
Anyway, now you want me to move to Afghanistan because you think that I am so concerned about the people of Afghanistan…can somebody please help me get this thru this man’s head? I’ll really appreciate some help here…Thanks in advance.
You are right about menace in Afghanistan for 8-10 years…it is the United Snakes. And I don’t think it is a waste of time to raise a voice against civilian destruction anywhere.
So who do you think is behind these suicide bomb attacks and what are their motives? do you really think that these are the acts of some Pakistanis against other Pakistanis with different ethnicity or religion while doing so killing themselves as well? Do you even know the current political, social and economic situation and issues in details?…do you think this deadly ‘Drone Attack’ on June 23, 2009 in Pakistan in which at least 40 Pakistani civilians were killed while at a funeral was the deed of a toothless Pakistani politician? You know, they are just like puppets with strings running up to Washington D.C. They are just filling up the positions; it makes no difference who is on those seats. And if there is anyone who wants to make a difference there, they just can not get up there and even if they get to the power, they get thrown away or killed.. It is as simple as that. They have no real powers. Last 60 or 80 years of history is full of such examples. It appears that you are you getting your facts thru the TV news channels and local news papers….do you have any educated and sincere people on the ground in Pakistan or anywhere to give you an honest and accurate analysis of the situation?
My take is that these things are not done by local people as the situation in Pakistan is not as desperate that people are gonna blow themselves up with others. it is not the situation like in occupied Palestine. Pakistan has no history of such type of violence until recently. Rather this is perpetrated by the U.S. as it has strong motives behind all that. Inflaming sectarian and religious violence, creating political instability, deliberately bombing civilian targets directly or indirectly to destroy the civil infrastructure and lives, infiltrating spies in other countries, blackmailing politically, economically and militarily to even its own allies are just some of the U.S. Government's specialties. I would be doing the same things if I was up to what U.S. is up to…and it’s doing a very good job at it. I am just not surprised from any of it.
And I am not playing any blame game… I am putting the blame only on your ‘president’ and his office as he is directly responsible of these murders. Technically and logically there are other elements who are part of these killing but we are not after them here for now.
Well, I am doing here something to make a difference…that is trying to share the ideas and information with others by writing about it and it takes some time and efforts to do that specially to reply your childish rebuttals…so what else do you want me to do? Go to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and drag that son of a bitch out of the White House and beat the shit out of him? or go on the streets and start shouting against them by myself or what?
Man, Your sorrows are so hollow that they make me even laugh…please, stop with that.
Anyway, now you want me to move to Afghanistan because you think that I am so concerned about the people of Afghanistan…can somebody please help me get this thru this man’s head? I’ll really appreciate some help here…Thanks in advance.
You are right about menace in Afghanistan for 8-10 years…it is the United Snakes. And I don’t think it is a waste of time to raise a voice against civilian destruction anywhere.
So who do you think is behind these suicide bomb attacks and what are their motives? do you really think that these are the acts of some Pakistanis against other Pakistanis with different ethnicity or religion while doing so killing themselves as well? Do you even know the current political, social and economic situation and issues in details?…do you think this deadly ‘Drone Attack’ on June 23, 2009 in Pakistan in which at least 40 Pakistani civilians were killed while at a funeral was the deed of a toothless Pakistani politician? You know, they are just like puppets with strings running up to Washington D.C. They are just filling up the positions; it makes no difference who is on those seats. And if there is anyone who wants to make a difference there, they just can not get up there and even if they get to the power, they get thrown away or killed.. It is as simple as that. They have no real powers. Last 60 or 80 years of history is full of such examples. It appears that you are you getting your facts thru the TV news channels and local news papers….do you have any educated and sincere people on the ground in Pakistan or anywhere to give you an honest and accurate analysis of the situation?
My take is that these things are not done by local people as the situation in Pakistan is not as desperate that people are gonna blow themselves up with others. it is not the situation like in occupied Palestine. Pakistan has no history of such type of violence until recently. Rather this is perpetrated by the U.S. as it has strong motives behind all that. Inflaming sectarian and religious violence, creating political instability, deliberately bombing civilian targets directly or indirectly to destroy the civil infrastructure and lives, infiltrating spies in other countries, blackmailing politically, economically and militarily to even its own allies are just some of the U.S. Government's specialties. I would be doing the same things if I was up to what U.S. is up to…and it’s doing a very good job at it. I am just not surprised from any of it.
And I am not playing any blame game… I am putting the blame only on your ‘president’ and his office as he is directly responsible of these murders. Technically and logically there are other elements who are part of these killing but we are not after them here for now.
Well, I am doing here something to make a difference…that is trying to share the ideas and information with others by writing about it and it takes some time and efforts to do that specially to reply your childish rebuttals…so what else do you want me to do? Go to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and drag that son of a bitch out of the White House and beat the shit out of him? or go on the streets and start shouting against them by myself or what?
Man, Your sorrows are so hollow that they make me even laugh…please, stop with that.
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shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
all i said was if you're soooooooo concerned about the people who are suffering then doooo something useful for them, do something that makes a difference in their life
abusing or accusing someone is very easy but bringing change takes time so my dear brother save those tears
if my words make you laugh then brother you're laughing on your ownself
oh lemme quote
abusing or accusing someone is very easy but bringing change takes time so my dear brother save those tears
if my words make you laugh then brother you're laughing on your ownself
oh lemme quote
You know, Poop has to come out and it goes in to the toilet and then it gets flushed out and ass gets wiped. But you are the type who drops it on the floor and spread it on the sink and in the bath tub…and all over yourself and then you just come out in the public.
Shiraz, you know that you’re cornered!
And FYI, I am doing more tangible things than just writing my thoughts here and there… and that’s one of the reasons I travel to Pakistan and Canada back and forth…I just don’t want to get into details on that…as it might sound like I’m showing off my services…
beside that, I think there is a growing problem within the middle-aged members of our jamat from certain area of the world (cannot mention the name of the area now for some reasons) and I’ve sensed that problem from quite sometime and I hope that jamati leadership in the top is aware of that indifference that has existed over the years but now I think it’s time for some actions to get rid of it. I think that the new initiatives that are in pipeline from the Ismaili Imamat’s office after the Golden Jubilee are probably going to address that problem directly or indirectly.
I think most of us are hoping for that “change” that we discussed here, to come from a single individual and in much like a revolution or renaissance but I think, that change will not be initiated from this side, and all the talks about it was just political rhetorics. this guy is more incapable to do anything than any other guy that has been in the White House before…but change will come, it has to come, it may not come anytime soon though…they will be forced to bring that change across the board. And I do see that things are moving slowly and slowly in that direction. That’s my evaluation and the hope that I ‘m looking forward with.
Wish you all the best!
And FYI, I am doing more tangible things than just writing my thoughts here and there… and that’s one of the reasons I travel to Pakistan and Canada back and forth…I just don’t want to get into details on that…as it might sound like I’m showing off my services…
beside that, I think there is a growing problem within the middle-aged members of our jamat from certain area of the world (cannot mention the name of the area now for some reasons) and I’ve sensed that problem from quite sometime and I hope that jamati leadership in the top is aware of that indifference that has existed over the years but now I think it’s time for some actions to get rid of it. I think that the new initiatives that are in pipeline from the Ismaili Imamat’s office after the Golden Jubilee are probably going to address that problem directly or indirectly.
I think most of us are hoping for that “change” that we discussed here, to come from a single individual and in much like a revolution or renaissance but I think, that change will not be initiated from this side, and all the talks about it was just political rhetorics. this guy is more incapable to do anything than any other guy that has been in the White House before…but change will come, it has to come, it may not come anytime soon though…they will be forced to bring that change across the board. And I do see that things are moving slowly and slowly in that direction. That’s my evaluation and the hope that I ‘m looking forward with.
Wish you all the best!
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shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
and that is what iam trying to tell you brother ,bringing change takes time , its not like an instant coffeeShiraz, you know that you’re cornered!
And FYI, I am doing more tangible things than just writing my thoughts here and there… and that’s one of the reasons I travel to Pakistan and Canada back and forth…I just don’t want to get into details on that…as it might sound like I’m showing off my services…
beside that, I think there is a growing problem within the middle-aged members of our jamat from certain area of the world (cannot mention the name of the area now for some reasons) and I’ve sensed that problem from quite sometime and I hope that jamati leadership in the top is aware of that indifference that has existed over the years but now I think it’s time for some actions to get rid of it. I think that the new initiatives that are in pipeline from the Ismaili Imamat’s office after the Golden Jubilee are probably going to address that problem directly or indirectly.
I think most of us are hoping for that “change” that we discussed here, to come from a single individual and in much like a revolution or renaissance but I think, that change will not be initiated from this side, and all the talks about it was just political rhetorics. this guy is more incapable to do anything than any other guy that has been in the White House before…but change will come, it has to come, it may not come anytime soon though…they will be forced to bring that change across the board. And I do see that things are moving slowly and slowly in that direction. That’s my evaluation and the hope that I ‘m looking forward with.
iam really happy that you're doing something for the people of your country and i wish you all the best , but brother as you said ....one person cant do much and this is why i said "WE" and not "ME"
that "WE" makes a difference brother
salam
ya ali madad
And the key point that I am trying to make is that this ‘change’ is not going to come from the American side, no matter what they say, rather it will be brought in to the United States and given to the American people, whether if they like it or not, and to the rest of the world by other countries like Brazil, Russia, China, India and few others…Muslim world itself cannot do it despite its superb and strategically at a very vital location and resources it has. It is in total shambles and chaos…it needs its own big ‘change’ that I hope will come after the America’s change.
American leadership knows this…that things are going to change now. This change means ‘power shift’ and this power in not going to be shifted or concentrated in just one area of the world, rather it will be distributed around the world. Multi-polar world is what’s going to emerge. America is just trying to prolong this process unfortunately at the expense of the most poorest and vulnerable people of the world.
American leadership knows this…that things are going to change now. This change means ‘power shift’ and this power in not going to be shifted or concentrated in just one area of the world, rather it will be distributed around the world. Multi-polar world is what’s going to emerge. America is just trying to prolong this process unfortunately at the expense of the most poorest and vulnerable people of the world.
Noam Chomsky interviewed by Peshawa Abdulkhaliq Muhammed
July 5, 2009
Q. "We Are Not At War With Islam", this is what Obama said during his recent visit to Turkey. Do you think, as some suggest, this new approach towards the Islamic world will be "End of the Clash of Civilisations"?
A. There was no beginning to the "Clash of Civilisations" so it cannot have an end. Simply consider the circumstances at the time when the doctrine was promulgated by Bernard Lewis and Samuel Huntington. The most populous Muslim state was Indonesia, a close US ally since 1965, when General Suharto carried out a murderous coup, killing hundreds of thousands of people and opening up the country's rich resources to the industrial societies. He remained an honored friend though innumerable crimes at home and abroad, among them the invasion of East Timor, which came about as close to genocide as any event of the modern period. He remained "Our kind of guy," as the Clinton administration declared in 1995, and maintained that status until he lost control and the US determined that his time was over. The most extreme fundamentalist Muslim state was Saudi Arabia, Washington's oldest and most valued ally in the region. At the time Washington, was bringing to a bloody end its murderous wars in Central America, specifically targeting the Catholic Church. Its practitioners of "liberation theology" sought to bring the radical pacifist lessons of the Gospels to the peasant society that was suffering under the yoke of US-imposed tyrants. That was clearly unacceptable, and they became primary victims of Washington's terrorist wars. One of the "talking points" of the famous School of the Americas is the proud boast that the US army "defeated liberation theology." If we continue, we find familiar confrontations, but no "clash of civilizations" -- a notion that was constructed at the end of the Cold War as a pretext for policies undertaken for other reasons, also familiar. Bush's policies evoked enormous hostility in the Muslim world. Quite sensibly, Obama is trying to reduce the hostility, though there is no indication of a substantive change in policies or motives.
July 5, 2009
Q. "We Are Not At War With Islam", this is what Obama said during his recent visit to Turkey. Do you think, as some suggest, this new approach towards the Islamic world will be "End of the Clash of Civilisations"?
A. There was no beginning to the "Clash of Civilisations" so it cannot have an end. Simply consider the circumstances at the time when the doctrine was promulgated by Bernard Lewis and Samuel Huntington. The most populous Muslim state was Indonesia, a close US ally since 1965, when General Suharto carried out a murderous coup, killing hundreds of thousands of people and opening up the country's rich resources to the industrial societies. He remained an honored friend though innumerable crimes at home and abroad, among them the invasion of East Timor, which came about as close to genocide as any event of the modern period. He remained "Our kind of guy," as the Clinton administration declared in 1995, and maintained that status until he lost control and the US determined that his time was over. The most extreme fundamentalist Muslim state was Saudi Arabia, Washington's oldest and most valued ally in the region. At the time Washington, was bringing to a bloody end its murderous wars in Central America, specifically targeting the Catholic Church. Its practitioners of "liberation theology" sought to bring the radical pacifist lessons of the Gospels to the peasant society that was suffering under the yoke of US-imposed tyrants. That was clearly unacceptable, and they became primary victims of Washington's terrorist wars. One of the "talking points" of the famous School of the Americas is the proud boast that the US army "defeated liberation theology." If we continue, we find familiar confrontations, but no "clash of civilizations" -- a notion that was constructed at the end of the Cold War as a pretext for policies undertaken for other reasons, also familiar. Bush's policies evoked enormous hostility in the Muslim world. Quite sensibly, Obama is trying to reduce the hostility, though there is no indication of a substantive change in policies or motives.
Following is an article by Jeff Archer (Malcom Laguache) from http://www.malcomlagauche.com/
U.S. DEMOCRACY: AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY
"This is America. If you have a gripe, write to your congressperson," we’ve been told. After all, we’re no dirty commies and we don’t live under a dictatorship. Most U.S. citizens have bought into this horseshit.
Here’s the reality.
During the 2008 presidential campaign, Barack Obama had a webpage in which he heralded that he wanted to listen to everyone’s opinion. But, there was no e-mail address to send his campaign a message. The only way one could correspond was to sign up for an Obama Supporters group. Then, the webpage said that Obama wanted to hear from everyone why they adored him. I signed up and sent in my gripes, never to receive a reply. I didn’t expect anything else, but at least I went through the motions to be able to say I tried the system and it failed miserably.
Let me give you a recent look at correspondence with the system. Don’t forget, these messages came from and went to Democrats, the supposed party of the people who deem themselves inclusive to all elements of the U.S. public.
I received this message a few days ago from info@barackobama.com:
malcom --
All throughout August, our members of Congress are back in town. Insurance companies and partisan attack groups are stirring up fear with false rumors about the President's plan, and it's extremely important that folks like you speak up now.
So we've cooked up an easy, powerful way for you to make a big impression: Office Visits for Health Reform.
All this week, OFA members like you will be stopping by local congressional offices to show our support for insurance reform. You can have a quick conversation with the local staff, tell your personal story, or even just drop off a customized flyer and say that reform matters to you.
We'll provide everything you need: the address, phone number, and open hours for the office, information about how the health care crisis affects your state for you to drop off (with the option of adding your personal story), and a step-by-step guide for your visit.
According to our records, you live near Sen. Dianne Feinstein's office in San Diego, CA.
Sign up now to visit Sen. Dianne Feinstein's office in San Diego this week.
(Not your representative or think there might be another office that's easier for you to get to? Click here to find a different office.)
As you've probably seen in the news, special interest attack groups are stirring up partisan mobs with lies about health reform, and it's getting ugly. Across the country, members of Congress who support reform are being shouted down, physically assaulted, hung in effigy, and receiving death threats. We can't let extremists hijack this debate, or confuse Congress about where the people stand.
Office Visits for Health Reform are our chance to show that the vast majority of American voters know that the cost of inaction is too high to bear, and strongly support passing health reform in 2009.
Don't worry if you've never done anything like this before. The congressional staff is there to listen, and your opinion as a constituent matters a lot. And if you bring a friend, you'll have more fun and make an even greater impact.
Thank you for going the extra mile when it matters the most,
Mitch
Mitch Stewart
Director
Organizing for America
(After Mr. Stewart’s message, was a big box on which someone could click called DONATE.)
Here was my response:
I wish you had a staff of people who could read. I've sent more than two dozen messages to you, only to receive a canned response that says you look at all messages. Bullshit.
As for Senator Feinstein, right on her website she says she takes pride in reading all her mail and giving responses to each question. A few weeks ago, a colleague and I wrote to her concerning two different subjects. Within a couple of hours, we received identical responses. I called her office in Washington and someone with an IQ of less than that of George Bush told me to write another e-mail message and specify I wanted an answer to my question. I had already told him I did that, but he forgot within a minute that I told him. I did write another message, but at least I did not receive a duplicate answer. I received none. And you suggest that I visit her office in San Diego?
I am so happy to see that you have included, as you always do, an easy way to take in money. Just a click on a link. I wish it was just as easy to receive a reply to a message sent to your group or Senator Feinstein.
Sincerely,
Malcom Lagauche
I did receive an answer to my reply:
Dear Friend,
Thank you for contacting Organizing for America, the grassroots movement that's working to help President Obama bring change to America. This movement was built by people like you, and your input will always drive it.
If you're contacting us because you're interested in getting involved with Organizing for America in your community, please visit:
www.BarackObama.com
Due to the extremely large number of email messages we're currently receiving, we may be unable to respond to your message individually, but we do appreciate hearing from you and hope you'll work with us as we build America's future together.
People like you across the country built the biggest, most comprehensive campaign in American history, but electing President Obama was just the first step. With your support and involvement, we can sustain and even grow our grassroots movement to help enact the change our country so desperately needs.
Thank you,
Organizing for America
And people criticize me for stating that the "democratic" system in the U.S. is a sham and that voting is a futile endeavor. At least I’ve tried and documented experiences that reinforce my opinion on voting.
U.S. DEMOCRACY: AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY
"This is America. If you have a gripe, write to your congressperson," we’ve been told. After all, we’re no dirty commies and we don’t live under a dictatorship. Most U.S. citizens have bought into this horseshit.
Here’s the reality.
During the 2008 presidential campaign, Barack Obama had a webpage in which he heralded that he wanted to listen to everyone’s opinion. But, there was no e-mail address to send his campaign a message. The only way one could correspond was to sign up for an Obama Supporters group. Then, the webpage said that Obama wanted to hear from everyone why they adored him. I signed up and sent in my gripes, never to receive a reply. I didn’t expect anything else, but at least I went through the motions to be able to say I tried the system and it failed miserably.
Let me give you a recent look at correspondence with the system. Don’t forget, these messages came from and went to Democrats, the supposed party of the people who deem themselves inclusive to all elements of the U.S. public.
I received this message a few days ago from info@barackobama.com:
malcom --
All throughout August, our members of Congress are back in town. Insurance companies and partisan attack groups are stirring up fear with false rumors about the President's plan, and it's extremely important that folks like you speak up now.
So we've cooked up an easy, powerful way for you to make a big impression: Office Visits for Health Reform.
All this week, OFA members like you will be stopping by local congressional offices to show our support for insurance reform. You can have a quick conversation with the local staff, tell your personal story, or even just drop off a customized flyer and say that reform matters to you.
We'll provide everything you need: the address, phone number, and open hours for the office, information about how the health care crisis affects your state for you to drop off (with the option of adding your personal story), and a step-by-step guide for your visit.
According to our records, you live near Sen. Dianne Feinstein's office in San Diego, CA.
Sign up now to visit Sen. Dianne Feinstein's office in San Diego this week.
(Not your representative or think there might be another office that's easier for you to get to? Click here to find a different office.)
As you've probably seen in the news, special interest attack groups are stirring up partisan mobs with lies about health reform, and it's getting ugly. Across the country, members of Congress who support reform are being shouted down, physically assaulted, hung in effigy, and receiving death threats. We can't let extremists hijack this debate, or confuse Congress about where the people stand.
Office Visits for Health Reform are our chance to show that the vast majority of American voters know that the cost of inaction is too high to bear, and strongly support passing health reform in 2009.
Don't worry if you've never done anything like this before. The congressional staff is there to listen, and your opinion as a constituent matters a lot. And if you bring a friend, you'll have more fun and make an even greater impact.
Thank you for going the extra mile when it matters the most,
Mitch
Mitch Stewart
Director
Organizing for America
(After Mr. Stewart’s message, was a big box on which someone could click called DONATE.)
Here was my response:
I wish you had a staff of people who could read. I've sent more than two dozen messages to you, only to receive a canned response that says you look at all messages. Bullshit.
As for Senator Feinstein, right on her website she says she takes pride in reading all her mail and giving responses to each question. A few weeks ago, a colleague and I wrote to her concerning two different subjects. Within a couple of hours, we received identical responses. I called her office in Washington and someone with an IQ of less than that of George Bush told me to write another e-mail message and specify I wanted an answer to my question. I had already told him I did that, but he forgot within a minute that I told him. I did write another message, but at least I did not receive a duplicate answer. I received none. And you suggest that I visit her office in San Diego?
I am so happy to see that you have included, as you always do, an easy way to take in money. Just a click on a link. I wish it was just as easy to receive a reply to a message sent to your group or Senator Feinstein.
Sincerely,
Malcom Lagauche
I did receive an answer to my reply:
Dear Friend,
Thank you for contacting Organizing for America, the grassroots movement that's working to help President Obama bring change to America. This movement was built by people like you, and your input will always drive it.
If you're contacting us because you're interested in getting involved with Organizing for America in your community, please visit:
www.BarackObama.com
Due to the extremely large number of email messages we're currently receiving, we may be unable to respond to your message individually, but we do appreciate hearing from you and hope you'll work with us as we build America's future together.
People like you across the country built the biggest, most comprehensive campaign in American history, but electing President Obama was just the first step. With your support and involvement, we can sustain and even grow our grassroots movement to help enact the change our country so desperately needs.
Thank you,
Organizing for America
And people criticize me for stating that the "democratic" system in the U.S. is a sham and that voting is a futile endeavor. At least I’ve tried and documented experiences that reinforce my opinion on voting.
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shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
Biryani was right ....I was wrong !!!!!
The men behind OBAMA ??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MouUJNG8 ... re=related [Please make sure to watch all the parts]
The men behind OBAMA ??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MouUJNG8 ... re=related [Please make sure to watch all the parts]