Hazrat Musa and Hazrat Khizar
Hazrat Musa and Hazrat Khizar
Apparently there is a very popular story about Hazrat Musa and Hazrat Khizar which I don't know in detail. Can someone please share?
Re: Hazrat Musa and Hazrat Khizar
In Qur'an 18, aayaat 65-82. Four parallel translations into English are available here: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc ... ml#018.065Saima wrote:Apparently there is a very popular story about Hazrat Musa and Hazrat Khizar which I don't know in detail. Can someone please share?
Summary: Musa meets the Green One (al-Khizr) and watches in confusion as al-Khizr commits apparent evils, only to learn in the end that al-Khizr's actions were actually wise and good.
Traditionally, the Shi'a remember this section as it teaches us the importance of knowing the truth of the actions and that the `aql of the Prophets and A'immah give them insights we might miss. Even Musa, a full Messenger, met a Prophet whose `aql outstripped his.
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hussainkhan55
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reality of Khizr
I was been told by someone that Khizr was actually the imam in Moses era
Hence outwitting Moses in the parable as mentioned in the Holy Quran.
Hence outwitting Moses in the parable as mentioned in the Holy Quran.
Re: reality of Khizr
His Imam was Harun, his brother, and was definitely NOT al-Khidr. After Harun died, he was succeeded by another named Imam.hussainkhan55 wrote:I was been told by someone that Khizr was actually the imam in Moses era
Hence outwitting Moses in the parable as mentioned in the Holy Quran.
You can read about this.
Khidr is a special case. He is said to be immortal, a kind of prophet (a non-diin-bringing kind), a teacher, etc.
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hussainkhan55
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- Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 1:35 am
His Imam was Harun, his brother, and was definitely NOT al-Khidr. After Harun died, he was succeeded by another named Imam.
You can read about this.
Khidr is a special case. He is said to be immortal, a kind of prophet (a non-diin-bringing kind), a teacher, etc.
Mew i dont thin k so.
in the whole parable Musa is outsmarted by Khizr which is vivid indicative of the fact that Khizr's knowledge superceded even Moses's which corresponds to fact that Imam being more knowledgible in person than prophet.Hence it might be possible that he took over Harun's role after his possible demise or else THERE MIGHT BE TWO IMAMS SIMULTANEOUSLY functioning together.
Citing egs of other two prophets that preceded HAzrat Musa are that of HAzrat Ibrahim and Hazrat Adam
It is widely believed that Hazrat Ibrahim had his son Ismail working as Imam but their Holy Books mentions that Imam at the time was Malchisadek who is mentiones in their Holy book.
Similarly, it is mentioned in Heinz Halm's book Fatimids and the Tradition of their learning that Adam's corresponding Imam was Abel but actually it was his son Sheesh who was handling task of Imamate.
Hence, i myself, is muddled as who were the Imam in the above mentioned prophets time . If possible can someone pls provide a whole list of Prophet-Imam who were functioning at their respective times.
But definitely its a invention that Khizr is still alive and takes special forms .... I dont believe in such beliefs which serves only to make people astray from correct descriptions of prophets. if really were tha case so then it might have been out in the media or anythiing could have happened.
You can read about this.
Khidr is a special case. He is said to be immortal, a kind of prophet (a non-diin-bringing kind), a teacher, etc.
Mew i dont thin k so.
in the whole parable Musa is outsmarted by Khizr which is vivid indicative of the fact that Khizr's knowledge superceded even Moses's which corresponds to fact that Imam being more knowledgible in person than prophet.Hence it might be possible that he took over Harun's role after his possible demise or else THERE MIGHT BE TWO IMAMS SIMULTANEOUSLY functioning together.
Citing egs of other two prophets that preceded HAzrat Musa are that of HAzrat Ibrahim and Hazrat Adam
It is widely believed that Hazrat Ibrahim had his son Ismail working as Imam but their Holy Books mentions that Imam at the time was Malchisadek who is mentiones in their Holy book.
Similarly, it is mentioned in Heinz Halm's book Fatimids and the Tradition of their learning that Adam's corresponding Imam was Abel but actually it was his son Sheesh who was handling task of Imamate.
Hence, i myself, is muddled as who were the Imam in the above mentioned prophets time . If possible can someone pls provide a whole list of Prophet-Imam who were functioning at their respective times.
But definitely its a invention that Khizr is still alive and takes special forms .... I dont believe in such beliefs which serves only to make people astray from correct descriptions of prophets. if really were tha case so then it might have been out in the media or anythiing could have happened.
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YaAliYaMowla
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- Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:43 pm
In the qasida dam hama dam Ali Ali there is mention of Khidr however Rumi is saying that Mowlana Ali is Khidr's guide, which implies that Khidr may not have been Imam.
However, from hadiths we learn that Khidr was from the beginning of time and will be there till the end of time. Also, Khidr gave messages during the time of Prophet Muhammad (saws) according to hadiths. Therefore, it is also possible that if Khidr was the Imam, that Khidr is not the actual name of the Imam, rather it is a word symbolic for the Imam of the time.
Similarly to how we can call all Imams after Mowlana Ali as Mowlana Ali, the word Khidr represents the Imam of the time and thus perhaps the Imam before Imam Haroon, who would have also been an Imam during Hazrat Musa's time, was called Khidr symbolically in the Qur'an but he had a different actual name.
However, from hadiths we learn that Khidr was from the beginning of time and will be there till the end of time. Also, Khidr gave messages during the time of Prophet Muhammad (saws) according to hadiths. Therefore, it is also possible that if Khidr was the Imam, that Khidr is not the actual name of the Imam, rather it is a word symbolic for the Imam of the time.
Similarly to how we can call all Imams after Mowlana Ali as Mowlana Ali, the word Khidr represents the Imam of the time and thus perhaps the Imam before Imam Haroon, who would have also been an Imam during Hazrat Musa's time, was called Khidr symbolically in the Qur'an but he had a different actual name.
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shiraz.virani
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shiraz.virani
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- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
Yes Pir is usualy from the Imams' progeny so Khizr probably was too. But I think this rule only applies to Pirs after Hazrat Ali (the sentence I remember is "Ahl e Ali thi Pir kari janro"
There was a Pir in the time of each Imam, including in the time of Imams before Adam. the only exception is when the Imam kept the Noor e Piratan with him and not in a separate person.
i will open soon a thread on the two Noor, the Noor of Imamate and the Noor of Piratan and we can discuss there of concepts such as the Surah al-Nurayan (Surah of the two Lights) which is part of the Quran manuscript found in Bankipore or the verses of the ginans saying"Hassan Hussayn do Noor pichano, usmese Ummat sari" [from memory)
There was a Pir in the time of each Imam, including in the time of Imams before Adam. the only exception is when the Imam kept the Noor e Piratan with him and not in a separate person.
i will open soon a thread on the two Noor, the Noor of Imamate and the Noor of Piratan and we can discuss there of concepts such as the Surah al-Nurayan (Surah of the two Lights) which is part of the Quran manuscript found in Bankipore or the verses of the ginans saying"Hassan Hussayn do Noor pichano, usmese Ummat sari" [from memory)
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ismaili103
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shiraz.virani
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Admin said :
And like you said the rule[PIRATAN through progeny] only applies after Imam Ali[as].....so this again indicates that H.Khizar may or may not be a PIR.
H.Khizar is often called as GREEN MAN, why??? Nobody knows
In holy quran allah[swt] calls him "his friend"
According to al-tabari H.Khizar was a mythical persian king who was living during the time of H.Ibrahim[as]....i.e way before the times of H.Musa[as]
According to al-tabari he also says that H.Khizar and Dhul-Qarnayn are one and the same
It is also said that both H.Elijah[Israelite] and H.Khizar[Persian] used to meet once every year and used to spend a month together = month of RAMADAN
It is said that this H.Khizar attended the funeral of rasool[saw]...According to Imam Al-Bayhaqi [sunni hadith writer]...there are only 2 people who recognized him on that day i.e H.Abu Bakr and Imam Ali[as]
H.Khizars appearance is as follows :
A powerful-looking, fine-featured, handsome man with a white beard came leaping over the backs of the people till he reached where the sacred body lay. Weeping bitterly, he turned toward the Companions and paid his condolences. Abu Bakr and Ali said that he was Khizar
It is also said that H.Khizar met Imam Ali[as] near kaaba and showed him supplication that is very meritorious.
But admin bhai/behen, If H.Khizar was from the progeny of H.Haroon[as] and H.Musa[as]...he[musa[as]] would have recognized him the moment he met him.....So I personally don't think that he was a PIRYes Pir is usualy from the Imams' progeny so Khizr probably was too. But I think this rule only applies to Pirs after Hazrat Ali (the sentence I remember is "Ahl e Ali thi Pir kari janro"
And like you said the rule[PIRATAN through progeny] only applies after Imam Ali[as].....so this again indicates that H.Khizar may or may not be a PIR.
H.Khizar is often called as GREEN MAN, why??? Nobody knows
In holy quran allah[swt] calls him "his friend"
According to al-tabari H.Khizar was a mythical persian king who was living during the time of H.Ibrahim[as]....i.e way before the times of H.Musa[as]
According to al-tabari he also says that H.Khizar and Dhul-Qarnayn are one and the same
It is also said that both H.Elijah[Israelite] and H.Khizar[Persian] used to meet once every year and used to spend a month together = month of RAMADAN
It is said that this H.Khizar attended the funeral of rasool[saw]...According to Imam Al-Bayhaqi [sunni hadith writer]...there are only 2 people who recognized him on that day i.e H.Abu Bakr and Imam Ali[as]
H.Khizars appearance is as follows :
A powerful-looking, fine-featured, handsome man with a white beard came leaping over the backs of the people till he reached where the sacred body lay. Weeping bitterly, he turned toward the Companions and paid his condolences. Abu Bakr and Ali said that he was Khizar
It is also said that H.Khizar met Imam Ali[as] near kaaba and showed him supplication that is very meritorious.
From the ‘Moses of Reason’ to the ‘Khidr of the Resurrection’: The Oxymoronic Transcendent in Shahrastani’s Majlis-imaktub … dar Khwarazm
This article is Shahrastani's interpretation of the Hazart Musa/Khidr encounter.
Excerpt:
Despite his strong Ashari theological background and staunch public affiliation with Sunnism, the significance of the presence of the numerous Ismaili terms, ideas, indications and allusions in his various works still remains puzzling. For instance, concerning Shahrastani’s Quranic commentary, Mafa al-asrar wa maa bi al-abrar his largest work, estimated to be ‘equal, and sometimes superior to those of Tabari or Razi in terms of precision, breadth, antiquity and variety of sources quoted’, a contemporary Iranian scholar wrote:
By studying this work one becomes intimately acquainted with the basic ideas and thoughts of this great thinker, allowing us to conjecture that beneath the cover of his Ashari and Shafi; theology, he was not unacquainted with the teachings and esoteric hermeneutics (tawilat) of the Ismaili denomination. … It is probable that Shahrastani followed their method, even if he did not allow himself to publicly declare himself a follower of the Ismaili faith.
The article can be accessed at:
https://www.academia.edu/14847080/From_ ... view-paper
This article is Shahrastani's interpretation of the Hazart Musa/Khidr encounter.
Excerpt:
Despite his strong Ashari theological background and staunch public affiliation with Sunnism, the significance of the presence of the numerous Ismaili terms, ideas, indications and allusions in his various works still remains puzzling. For instance, concerning Shahrastani’s Quranic commentary, Mafa al-asrar wa maa bi al-abrar his largest work, estimated to be ‘equal, and sometimes superior to those of Tabari or Razi in terms of precision, breadth, antiquity and variety of sources quoted’, a contemporary Iranian scholar wrote:
By studying this work one becomes intimately acquainted with the basic ideas and thoughts of this great thinker, allowing us to conjecture that beneath the cover of his Ashari and Shafi; theology, he was not unacquainted with the teachings and esoteric hermeneutics (tawilat) of the Ismaili denomination. … It is probable that Shahrastani followed their method, even if he did not allow himself to publicly declare himself a follower of the Ismaili faith.
The article can be accessed at:
https://www.academia.edu/14847080/From_ ... view-paper
Re:
I am leaning towards what you mentioned above,Admin wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:33 pm He was the Hujjat al-Imam, the Imam Mustawda, the Pir of his Time and the Noor of Piratan existing to the ever present.
However the question that arises here is if khizr was a pir wouldn't hazrat Musa know or recognize him since Musa was a prophet who himself was a pir.!?
One other possibility is that the incident or incidents were merely to teach others on a Zahir level a lesson while in batin Musa was aware of who khizr was.
Also
More than one Imam can coexist at the same time but only one has the authority and is the /Sahibulamr!
Imams are born Imams and they know they are Imam but they only mainfist when the authority transfers from one Imam to another imam!
Re: Re:
These are theories developped by some Da'is a thousands years ago but many times contradicted by our Imam. Even in Interview the Imam has clearly said he did not know that he would became Imam up to the time of the demise of the previous Imam and when asked if the next Imam knows he said nobody knows who the next Imam will be. Imam is Noor and Noor can pass in any person decided by the present Imam amongst his male progeny, even skipping one of two generations like it has happened many times in the past. but there can never be 2 Imams at the same time. These are old theories that have created confusions and even split the community in the past.Farzy wrote: Thu May 14, 2026 11:16 am More than one Imam can coexist at the same time but only one has the authority and is the /Sahibulamr!
Imams are born Imams and they know they are Imam but they only mainfist when the authority transfers from one Imam to another imam!
Re: Re:
The verses below from Moman Chetamni clearly indicate Hazarat Ali was born an Imam although Hazarat Abu Talib was the actual Imam.Admin wrote: Fri May 15, 2026 3:29 am These are old theories that have created confusions and even split the community in the past.
82) Eji Tare mataji uthi te mahain gaya
Huran be aaviyoon te ghar ninjar
Te same Ali peda thaya
Te aad nirianjan noon avtar Cheto.....
82. Then the Mother arose and went therein. Two angels came to that home. Ali was created in front of them. Verily Ali is the manifestation of the the Primal Formless God.
83) Eji Tame sat divas aankhioon nahi aghariyoon
Mukh thi khirna pidhoon lagar
Tara nabi Mohd ne malum thayoon
Teto aaviya teaniaj var Cheto.....
83. For seven days He would not open His eyes and would not take any milk.
This made Prophet Muhammed realize (who Hazrat Ali was) and he cam to Him.
84) Eji Tare salam kidha sarvare
Ali ae aankhiyoon oghariyoon teaniaj var
Tare didar kidha nabi Mohamed tana
Mukh thi salam varyo ali kirtar Cheto.....
84. He (Prophet Muhammed) paid respects to Hazrat Ali, upon which He
opened His eyes and they mutually
saw each other and Hazrat Ali smiled at the Prophet.
85) Eji Tare mukh ughariyoon Mowla Ali jiae
Tena mukh mahain jib didhi sardar
Tya(n) bed sagharo samabara viya
Te char kitabaj saar Cheto.....
85. Since that day Hazrat Ali opened His mouth and has become our leader
(check this word). He has told us the secrets of here and after and His
words are the gist of the four scriptures.
86) Eji Tare potani kudarat rakhi pota kane
Nabi Mohammed samajya sarve vichar
Dhan dhan mat tat ne kahiae
Ay che aad nirinjan no avtar Cheto.....
86. Prophet Muhammed had understood Hazrat Ali's greatness and
congratulated His mother for being chosen
to be the person through which God would manifest.
87) Eji Aene partham pahelo sahi kidho
Jyare ditha te shah na didar
Pache te muridone vataviyo
Te mahain je orkhashe te pamshe paar Cheto....
87. The Prophet first assured himself of Hazrat Ali and got His Holy
Didar. He then introduced Ali to the
Momins and those who recognized Him indeed achieved salvation.
88) Eji Te satguru sahebjieay sreva kari
Shukrana kidha ati apaar
Ali ne te allah orakhiyo
Te mahain shak na aanio lagaar Cheto.....
88. The True Guide (Prophet Muhammad) served him and expressed immense gratitude. He recognized Ali as Allah and he had no doubts about it at all.
89) Eji Tare arash mahinthi maliek utariya
Te aaviya paygambar pase tenivar
Te puchva lagiya paiygambar ne
Tame shoon shoon ditha sardar Cheto....
89. The angels came down from the skies to ask the Prophet where and how
did you see the leader .
90) Eji Tare mukh mubarak mahain thi boliya
Nabi Mohammed teniaj vaar
Ame mojiza kitha mukh ali jine
Aapano bhed aaliyo che sanbar Cheto.....
90. The Prophet replied: "I have seen a miracle from (in) Ali's face and
He has introduced me to the secrets of the here and the hereafter."
91) Eji Tare Nabi Mohammed ne malaeke kahayoon
Amne dekharo Ali vardatar
Ame didar kariya shah Ali tana
To utariya pele paar Cheto....
91. The angels requested the Prophet: "Please show us Ali the Lord so that
we may get His Holy Didar and achieve salvation."
92) Eji Tare Nabi Mohammed ne malaek chaliya
Te aaviya Abu Talib ne duar
Tyan noor dithon nirakar noon
Kidhoon kuransoon teni vaar Cheto....
92. The Prophet then took the angels to Hazrat Abu Talib's home where they
all saw Allah's Noor (Illahi Noor) and completed their mission.
93) Eji Tare salam kari te to pacha variya
Te malaek ne sardar
Tare malaek Nabi Mohammed ne kahayoon
Ae to che arash kurash noon kirtar Cheto....
93. After saluting Hazrat Ali the angels turned back and said to the
Prophet: "Verily He is the Creator of the earth and the heaven."
94) Eji Hamne jene hukam kariyo
Ane mukiya tam pase sardar
Sohi ame aene jaanta
Te mahain shak nahi re lagaar Cheto.....
94. The One who has commanded me and has made me your leader (check the
word), O Momin, He is the only One I know and I request you not to doubt Him.
95) Eji Tare Nabi Mohammed aem boliya
Bhai malaek tamne kahoon vichar
Amne pote orkhavio
Ae che susatino sirjan har Cheto.....
95. Prophet Muhammed said to the angels that Ali revealed Himself to me
and verily He is the Creator of the universe.
96) Eji Ali te to sahi allah kahiye
Tema oocho nahire lagaar
Ame aene manio sidak soon
Aeno nam che jallshanaho aakar Cheto......
96. Momins, consider Ali as Allah and nothing less for I have believed in Him
with implicit faith and He is my Lord.
97) Eji Sidak barshaq Ali kahiye
Te aad nirinjan no avtar
Tare Nabi Mohammed ne saho salam kari
Malaek gaya potane duar Cheto.....
97. Ali is the all-powerful and He is God Manifest. Prophet Muhammed and
the angels paid their respects to Him and they went back to their abode.
98) Eji Malaek tyanthi mathe gaya
Pahota hajor parvardigaar
Tare kuran soon kari uba rahaya
Tare ditho te Ali jino aakar Cheto.....
98. When the angels went back to the Heaven and were fortunate to go to
God's presence; to their amazement it was none other than Hazrat Ali.
99) Eji Mowla Murtaza Ali duniya mahain zaher thaye
Teni kudrat no nahi koie paar
Dine islam aethi payda thayo
Te karame mathe thi utarya duldul ne zulfiqar Cheto....
99. So Momins, God has proclaimed Himself in Hazrat Ali and there is no
end to what He can do. He gave us Islam and then came to us riding Dul Dul and with Zulfiqar (sword) in His
hand.