Beliefs of Central Asian Ismailis

sheri · Post by **sheri** » Tue May 06, 2014 11:44 am

This forum would act as a median to share the Central Asian Ismaili beliefs as they have evolved over the past 1000 years. Their history is older than the Satpanthi Ismailis from Indo-Pak, Africa, and Bangladesh.

This article provide a brief glimpse into their background from a historic perspective.

http://simerg.com/literary-readings/lit ... changes-2/

It would be great if Central Asian Ismailis can share more of their fundamental beliefs, theology etc. How your beliefs are related to the older religions of that region such as Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Nestorian Christianity, and Manichaeism. Influence of Greek philosophy on your lives etc.

I look forward to learning more about my fellow brothers from the other parts of the world.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:35 pm

Sorry tret
You do not have to hide your identity anymore because there are some who knows you very well do not believe this? then ask your self but sorry to say that
Nobody has interet in Central Asain culture or history!! because I waited and waited that some one comes and put their comment but that not happened so I think I should tell you the reality of misunderstanding. Hope you will not take it personal.
By the way about satpanthi murids, they were there all the time! they were with
H. Adam, H.Moses, with Jesus and with Prophet Mohd, so you can not tell that central Asians Ismailis are older then Satpanthis.
but if you thinks Khojas are the Satpanthis then: tnis is your second mistakes.why? because Momna community, who used to live in Shri Sthal and Anhilwad ( now a days its call as Patan and Sidhpur ) then let's me tell you this Momna were first converted by pir Satgur Noor, more than 1100 years ago! more 500 years before Khoja converted by pir Sadardin and even N. khushru.
at that time your so called Khushu was not even born.period and that is why our 46th,47th and 48th imams consider Momamas as their families members !! because we are the first who converted in IsmIlism more than 500 years ago before hoja brothers. any question?

tret · Post by **tret** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:34 pm

I am sorry to hear that.

Satpanth is a subgroup of Nizari Ismailism and Ismaili Sufism formed by conversions from Hinduism 700 years ago by Pir Sadruddin (1290-1367) and 600 years ago in the 15th century by his grandson Pir Imam Shah (1430-1520), they differ slightly from the Nizari Khojas in that they reject the Aga Khan as their leader and are known more commonly as Imam-Shahi. There are villages in Gujarat which are totally 'Satpanthi' such as Pirana near Ahmedabad where Imam Shah is buried.

this is from wikipidia, not sure how true and reliable is it. Is it you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satpanth

Post by **Admin** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:16 pm

Imam Shahi may call themselves wrongly Satpanthis. I have discussed that at lenght with their Mota Kaka In Pirana in December 1988.

However we are the real Satpanthis. Satpanth means Sirat al Mustaqueen.

Though the Imam Shahis are searching their way, they know they have branched out from Ismailism and they still believed as of 1988 that the Fatimids were their roots. In fact the separation from us is not that old, they were like Guptis and even they believed in our 40th Imam Imam Nizar II so they are close to us.

The first conversion to Ismailism in India was done by Imam Ismail himself when he went through India. There are several sources confirming this, one of them being Man Samjani Granth of Pir Shams.

Admin

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:55 am

As per the history of Ismaili pirs and as per Abu Ali waez the Imam shahi sect was not started by Syed Imam Shah but it was started by his son Syed Noor Mohammad Shah after Imam Shah's death.
According above two sources along with my own study of Imam shahi sect's Syed Noor Mohammad Shah introduced himself as "Nar" means Imam. and started to collect dasond from murids when this talk reached to Ismaili Imams he ordered jamats not to give him dasond and drove him out from Ismaili sect, therefore in revenge he started new sect which is called Imam Shahi sect actually this sect was started to collect dasond.
FYI:- In Imam Shahi du'a they recites names of "Ahle bait" and names of Pir Shams, Pir Sadardin and pir Hasan Kabirdin but they also believe and practice some Hindu rituals and belief too.
Do you know we are still reciting some dhrol (ginans) of Imam Shahi sects in JK??

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:37 pm

agakhani bhai said :

FYI:- In Imam Shahi du'a they recites names of "Ahle bait" and names of Pir Shams, Pir Sadardin and pir Hasan Kabirdin but they also believe and practice some Hindu rituals and belief too.

Talking about hindu rituals agakhani bhai:

Can a mukhi [treasurer] forgive our sins when we say "TOBO TOBO" ???

Logically speaking a mukhi is a treasurer of the particular JK....So in that case can I go to our nizari bank and get my sins forgiven with interest ???

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:57 pm

No, but I do not tell you wrong I still can send you their duas in that dua you will find whatever I wrote above By the way in Nizari progressive federal credit union I served 9 Years as Boord of Directors and two times as vice Chairman post.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:28 pm

No, but I didnot told you wrong I still can send you their duas in that dua you will find whatever I wrote above By the way and as you mentioned its name then let me tell you that, in Nizari progressive federal credit union I served 9 Years as Boord of Directors and two times as vice Chairman post do not you believe this? asks directly to Sothwest Council president Mr. Geshani directly? or ask Mansoor Tejani he was CEO that time and why do not ask my colligue billionnaire Malik Waliuani about this? He was chairman at that time. and this is not old story I just resigned my post only couples of year ago, it was hard me to drive Houston every week.
I do noy want to show up my self nor I want to praise myself but since you just point out abot Nizari then I can not stop my self BTW manority leaders from Houston knows me very well. This is not my self praise but it is true brother.
Hope you and every one will mot consider me show up person that is not the case if it was then I would not have keep my self secret from you folks almost a decade that I served in many Jamati Institutions and still doing that. So be happy and peacefull

Post by **Admin** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:37 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:agakhani bhai said :

Can a mukhi [treasurer] forgive our sins when we say "TOBO TOBO" ???
You are mistaken, Mukhi means Mukhiye, the Principal. Mukhi represent the Imam in his absence. That is where he gets his authority from.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:11 pm

admin said :

You are mistaken, Mukhi means Mukhiye, the Principal. Mukhi represent the Imam in his absence. That is where he gets his authority from.

I was just going through the Haji Bibi case judgement and there it was said that the Mukhi = Treasurer.

Post by **Admin** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:34 pm

Well it is a wrong translation there.

tret · Post by **tret** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:44 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:....So in that case can I go to our nizari bank and get my sins forgiven with interest ???

I like the sentiment.