Abhai, I posted the first verse from the Ginan with the link in my post!agakhani wrote:That is correct! you are right! Kbhai!
By the way there is a similar ginan SHAH NA KHAT AVYA which was composed by Syed Imam Shah!!! I am putting few ginanic verses below:-
first article of preamble of Ismaili Constitution
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mazharshah
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agakhani wrote:That is correct! you are right! Kbhai!
By the way there is a similar ginan SHAH NA KHAT AVYA which was composed by Syed Imam Shah!!! I am putting few ginanic verses below:-
Eji shah na khat aavya viraa Jampudip mahe;
kaai laaviyaa laaviyaa chandan vir 1
Eji Shaahnaa khat vaanchiyaa Pir Indr Imaamdin;
aaj maare haydde harakh na maay 2
Eji Pir Indr Imaamdin aashaa mukhe boliyaa vinati;
saami gat naa gunaa bakash karo ji 13
Source: Ismaili. net ginan section.
What is spiritual significance of jumpudwep? Can some one explain.
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mazharshah
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WHY KALAM E IMAM E MUBIN WAS RESTRICTED AND WENT OUT OF PRINTING IN LATE 70'S? My observation only. This is not criticism of farmans. I respect farmans.
This is my opinion, without annoying any one.
It is the prerogative of Imam to change farman according to time. MSMS in a farman said,"I have changed my farman 70 times during 70 years of my imamat"
When some one reads K I M attentively and thoughtfully, can realize these changes. MSMS's farman made in 1890's to 1920 are different than 1940's and 1950's. Even one can realize the difference in farmans of MSMS and present Imam. With introduction of new Du'a many things changed and these changes were initiated by MSMS. In 1969 and 1975 Ismailia Associations conferences many decisions were taken with the permission of Imam and that made lot of differences in the period of MSMS's time and Shah Karim's time. Let me give few examples.
MSMS; SHAH KARIM;
1.For BK if 4 persons carry you on cot, you have to come to BK. 1.If you have headache don't do bandagi, you will not be able to concentrate.
2. MSMS created majalis. 2. Shah Karim is discontinuing or extending the timing of majalis.
3.MSMS gave importance to ginans. 3. Shah Karim said ginans are 'wonderful tradition'.
4.MSMS did not press hard for Quran studies. 4. Shah Karim stresses on Quranic teachings and learning Arabic language.
5.MSMS praised Ali Muhammad Chunara's book Tarikh e Imam e Mubin. 5. In 1975 conference HI instructed to stop printing Tarikh e Imam e Mubin.
6.MSMS changed the the Du'a and wordings. 6. Shah Karim continued and explained the meaning of ALIYULLAH.
7.All types of ginans were allowed to be recited in JK. 7. Only selected and abridged ginans are allowed to be recited now adays.
8.MSMS allowed sunni Hanafi Tariqa like,eid,janaza,juma namaz. 8. Shah Karim changed that to Fatimi Tariqa, still work is in progress.
9.Few rituals like kangwo, dastbosi were continued in Imamat of MSMS. 9. Shah Karim discontinued those rituals.
10.For BK MSMS use to give NAKSH. 10. Shah Karim stopped giving NAKSH.
11.MSMS had JALALI attitude. 11. Shah Karim has JAMALI attitude.
With permission of HI, decision was taken after 1975 conference not to reprint KIM. Missionaries were given guidance to quote from the farman book Gawhar e Rahmat, abridged of KIM. In 1986 CONSTITUTION, authority of printing farmans was with drawn from ITREB's, reasons were not given.
In my opinion, we can divide KIM in three stages or divisions.
1. Farmans to gupti jamaits.
2. Farmans to khoja/momina jamaits.
3. Farmans for general jamaits in variuos countries according to their envirnments.
The very first farman mentioned in KIM is dated Sep1,1885, and the last is dated Feb9,1951. KIM does not contain crucial farmans from 1952 to july11,1957.
Farmans made to gupti jamaits are different from those made to khoja/momina jamaits. The compilers of KIM should have printed separately the farmans made to gupti jamaits as well as khoja/momina jamaits or general farmans to various jamaits. This mingled up of farmans created confusion and misunderstanding in various persons.
For gupti jamaits MSMS used mostly terminologies from Hindu mythology. For khoja and momina jamaits he stressed ginanic literature to explain. For the rest of central Asian and middle east jamaits, he used mostly Shia Islamic terminologies to explain. Take example of Du'a, namaz, zikr, BK for various countries and regions. Farmans are right but mixing up of farmans in KIM made mostly confusion. Compilers should have published farmans made to gupti jamaits separately and for others separately.
This is my opinion, without annoying any one.
It is the prerogative of Imam to change farman according to time. MSMS in a farman said,"I have changed my farman 70 times during 70 years of my imamat"
When some one reads K I M attentively and thoughtfully, can realize these changes. MSMS's farman made in 1890's to 1920 are different than 1940's and 1950's. Even one can realize the difference in farmans of MSMS and present Imam. With introduction of new Du'a many things changed and these changes were initiated by MSMS. In 1969 and 1975 Ismailia Associations conferences many decisions were taken with the permission of Imam and that made lot of differences in the period of MSMS's time and Shah Karim's time. Let me give few examples.
MSMS; SHAH KARIM;
1.For BK if 4 persons carry you on cot, you have to come to BK. 1.If you have headache don't do bandagi, you will not be able to concentrate.
2. MSMS created majalis. 2. Shah Karim is discontinuing or extending the timing of majalis.
3.MSMS gave importance to ginans. 3. Shah Karim said ginans are 'wonderful tradition'.
4.MSMS did not press hard for Quran studies. 4. Shah Karim stresses on Quranic teachings and learning Arabic language.
5.MSMS praised Ali Muhammad Chunara's book Tarikh e Imam e Mubin. 5. In 1975 conference HI instructed to stop printing Tarikh e Imam e Mubin.
6.MSMS changed the the Du'a and wordings. 6. Shah Karim continued and explained the meaning of ALIYULLAH.
7.All types of ginans were allowed to be recited in JK. 7. Only selected and abridged ginans are allowed to be recited now adays.
8.MSMS allowed sunni Hanafi Tariqa like,eid,janaza,juma namaz. 8. Shah Karim changed that to Fatimi Tariqa, still work is in progress.
9.Few rituals like kangwo, dastbosi were continued in Imamat of MSMS. 9. Shah Karim discontinued those rituals.
10.For BK MSMS use to give NAKSH. 10. Shah Karim stopped giving NAKSH.
11.MSMS had JALALI attitude. 11. Shah Karim has JAMALI attitude.
With permission of HI, decision was taken after 1975 conference not to reprint KIM. Missionaries were given guidance to quote from the farman book Gawhar e Rahmat, abridged of KIM. In 1986 CONSTITUTION, authority of printing farmans was with drawn from ITREB's, reasons were not given.
In my opinion, we can divide KIM in three stages or divisions.
1. Farmans to gupti jamaits.
2. Farmans to khoja/momina jamaits.
3. Farmans for general jamaits in variuos countries according to their envirnments.
The very first farman mentioned in KIM is dated Sep1,1885, and the last is dated Feb9,1951. KIM does not contain crucial farmans from 1952 to july11,1957.
Farmans made to gupti jamaits are different from those made to khoja/momina jamaits. The compilers of KIM should have printed separately the farmans made to gupti jamaits as well as khoja/momina jamaits or general farmans to various jamaits. This mingled up of farmans created confusion and misunderstanding in various persons.
For gupti jamaits MSMS used mostly terminologies from Hindu mythology. For khoja and momina jamaits he stressed ginanic literature to explain. For the rest of central Asian and middle east jamaits, he used mostly Shia Islamic terminologies to explain. Take example of Du'a, namaz, zikr, BK for various countries and regions. Farmans are right but mixing up of farmans in KIM made mostly confusion. Compilers should have published farmans made to gupti jamaits separately and for others separately.
Ya Ali Madad:
Very interesting observation by the non ismaili 'S'
This was a spiritually progress of of khoja traditions ismailis. you also like hang on for time pass
aiysa kyu or waise kyu?
It was transitation fron a imam of rising industrial age to imam of space age.
1. It is like arguing that talika came in postal telegram message 90 year backs
n now it is via email. as thing evolves from letter (khat) to telegram,telex,fax, email n maybe in future direct to smartfone's app.
2.Imam SMS built institutions horizontally to cove more people at ground level
and MHI had gone ahead vertically as institution of Excellence.
3) 80 years some scholars wore on imam history with available data from khoja database n angle.
IIS has come with same with more accurate b broad based book on same subject ,so old is discontuined for good.
4) khoja khanas are becoming ismail centers fo buety n peace
.You are right the tone n temper of Imam SMS was firm , as during many year of world war II ,humanity was massacred,Millions form one religious background.
In Fatimid time Imam Moizz spoke soft n sweetly while Imam Hakam bi amrillah spoke firmly and agressively.
MHI is sole decider what should our ritual, tariqa and what material of tradition is need for jamaat.
We do not ask 'Aisa kyu aur waisa nahi?.NO TIME PASS of past.
If some ask you why are you using a smart fone n not finger dialing round dial instrument like you grandfather did?
Our faith is of baatin which will win the day n generation with just one or two words to take on the world not millions of data,lines n book and debates.
What is there now is 50% of what was 100 years back this also come down by 50% in next few decades.
What ALI want is marfati/noorani momins to take on world Intellectually.
I have used the word "blinkered" .Even MHI used this word in his speech or farman that these people see less light ( not blind but not full vision).
Khojas see Islam from past Pir's point of view earlier more often over farmans n qasida etc.
that can be a narrow dimension( blinkered).
Like If argue that Talika mubarak mean only "khat mean letter n nothing more because one Pir has said it, ignoring other one more ginan n qasida refered it as for similar events and definition given by board or institution.
I see that as blinkered Khoja view.
many Khojas have in built import of indifferent legacy/warsa culture from kathiwar via africa to western counties of dekha dekhi,panchat,gibat that
is show off,gossiping n back biting. Some percentage see light in that when they visit JK and miss the ruhani light.
so less light mean 'blinkered.'
Very interesting observation by the non ismaili 'S'
This was a spiritually progress of of khoja traditions ismailis. you also like hang on for time pass
aiysa kyu or waise kyu?
It was transitation fron a imam of rising industrial age to imam of space age.
1. It is like arguing that talika came in postal telegram message 90 year backs
n now it is via email. as thing evolves from letter (khat) to telegram,telex,fax, email n maybe in future direct to smartfone's app.
2.Imam SMS built institutions horizontally to cove more people at ground level
and MHI had gone ahead vertically as institution of Excellence.
3) 80 years some scholars wore on imam history with available data from khoja database n angle.
IIS has come with same with more accurate b broad based book on same subject ,so old is discontuined for good.
4) khoja khanas are becoming ismail centers fo buety n peace
.You are right the tone n temper of Imam SMS was firm , as during many year of world war II ,humanity was massacred,Millions form one religious background.
In Fatimid time Imam Moizz spoke soft n sweetly while Imam Hakam bi amrillah spoke firmly and agressively.
MHI is sole decider what should our ritual, tariqa and what material of tradition is need for jamaat.
We do not ask 'Aisa kyu aur waisa nahi?.NO TIME PASS of past.
If some ask you why are you using a smart fone n not finger dialing round dial instrument like you grandfather did?
Our faith is of baatin which will win the day n generation with just one or two words to take on the world not millions of data,lines n book and debates.
What is there now is 50% of what was 100 years back this also come down by 50% in next few decades.
What ALI want is marfati/noorani momins to take on world Intellectually.
I have used the word "blinkered" .Even MHI used this word in his speech or farman that these people see less light ( not blind but not full vision).
Khojas see Islam from past Pir's point of view earlier more often over farmans n qasida etc.
that can be a narrow dimension( blinkered).
Like If argue that Talika mubarak mean only "khat mean letter n nothing more because one Pir has said it, ignoring other one more ginan n qasida refered it as for similar events and definition given by board or institution.
I see that as blinkered Khoja view.
many Khojas have in built import of indifferent legacy/warsa culture from kathiwar via africa to western counties of dekha dekhi,panchat,gibat that
is show off,gossiping n back biting. Some percentage see light in that when they visit JK and miss the ruhani light.
so less light mean 'blinkered.'
Why so much hate for the Khojas?nuseri wrote: I see that as blinkered Khoja view.
many Khojas have in built import of indifferent legacy/warsa culture from kathiwar via africa to western counties of dekha dekhi,panchat,gibat that
is show off,gossiping n back biting. Some percentage see light in that when they visit JK and miss the ruhani light.
so less light mean 'blinkered.'
Present Imam told Khojas that "While your traditions have evolved in the presence of Imam, their traditions has evolved in the absence of Imam". (Hyderabad farman)
Our Imam did not say Khoja traditions were inferior to other ismaili tradition? maybe you know better than our Imam....
To Admin: ya Ali Madad.
I am also from Khoja tradition in this phase of Life.
form where that get the word 'Hate'
I have never use that word for Khojas.
I have expressed my disapproval n disliking of khojas Asiatic legacy n culture and that do reflects in what MHI has said 'Ethics of Islam".
Telling a bitter truth which can affects one spiritual progress can be coined as hatred.
what does it means when MHI has said 'Your traditions has evolved'.
Please explain in detail.I will try to debate on that.
Let me ask you.
Why do react adversely to the word 'blinkered"?
Even MHI has used that word to explain something.
You know better than most. Ask him why did use that word ?
I am also from Khoja tradition in this phase of Life.
form where that get the word 'Hate'
I have never use that word for Khojas.
I have expressed my disapproval n disliking of khojas Asiatic legacy n culture and that do reflects in what MHI has said 'Ethics of Islam".
Telling a bitter truth which can affects one spiritual progress can be coined as hatred.
what does it means when MHI has said 'Your traditions has evolved'.
Please explain in detail.I will try to debate on that.
Let me ask you.
Why do react adversely to the word 'blinkered"?
Even MHI has used that word to explain something.
You know better than most. Ask him why did use that word ?
Hazar Imam has never said khojas have a blinkered view.
I have no intention to let you transform this Forum into a battle place as you have continuously tried to do. . Please behave. IF you are a Khoja and have an inferiority complex, please deal with it. There are plenty of good psychiatrists. Get some help and get over it. IF you are not a khoja, please do not pretend being one.
I have no intention to let you transform this Forum into a battle place as you have continuously tried to do. . Please behave. IF you are a Khoja and have an inferiority complex, please deal with it. There are plenty of good psychiatrists. Get some help and get over it. IF you are not a khoja, please do not pretend being one.
To zznoor.Ya Ali Madad.
We were 15 millions almost 33 years back. now must be over 25 million strong.
Most Ismailis are Haqiqati( pure white sheep of the flock) and less percentage are tariqatis( off white) and the few black sheeps (een min sade teen n you) found their way out.
I have use the word 'JAANDAR' before the word haqiqati. It means he is willing to sacrifice his life to uphold the truth of his faith.
I have figured him one of 5 very bold ones inspite challenges from family ,Jamaat,snooty leaders. he has with own fund is is just not upholding his conviction but also educating and propagating the website viewed by thousands.
Worldwide religious n faith aligned website publishers have their life at risk from fanatics n radicals.
I see him along few other Ismailis making impact on many running the website at this scale.
I salute him for his mission. He could be bit stubborn.That can be natural
you cannot become bold by staying meek.
so understanding a line of HB is 100 time more puzzling than the line I wrote.
We were 15 millions almost 33 years back. now must be over 25 million strong.
Most Ismailis are Haqiqati( pure white sheep of the flock) and less percentage are tariqatis( off white) and the few black sheeps (een min sade teen n you) found their way out.
I have use the word 'JAANDAR' before the word haqiqati. It means he is willing to sacrifice his life to uphold the truth of his faith.
I have figured him one of 5 very bold ones inspite challenges from family ,Jamaat,snooty leaders. he has with own fund is is just not upholding his conviction but also educating and propagating the website viewed by thousands.
Worldwide religious n faith aligned website publishers have their life at risk from fanatics n radicals.
I see him along few other Ismailis making impact on many running the website at this scale.
I salute him for his mission. He could be bit stubborn.That can be natural
you cannot become bold by staying meek.
so understanding a line of HB is 100 time more puzzling than the line I wrote.
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mazharshah
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Nizari Ismailism is very simple;
1. Understand meaning of our Du'a properly and apply accordingly.
2. Read and understand PREAMBLE of our constitution. Imam has explained
tenets of Islam and Ismailism. This is an official document by Imam because it bears signature of Imam.
3. To understand Ismailism and history, please read " THE RELIGION OF MY
ANCESTORS" by MSMS.
QUESTIONS USUALLY ASKED BY TEENAGERS, REC STUDENTS, AND JAMAITI MEMBERS WILL BE SOLVED.
1. Understand meaning of our Du'a properly and apply accordingly.
2. Read and understand PREAMBLE of our constitution. Imam has explained
tenets of Islam and Ismailism. This is an official document by Imam because it bears signature of Imam.
3. To understand Ismailism and history, please read " THE RELIGION OF MY
ANCESTORS" by MSMS.
QUESTIONS USUALLY ASKED BY TEENAGERS, REC STUDENTS, AND JAMAITI MEMBERS WILL BE SOLVED.
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ismaili103
- Posts: 504
- Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:40 am
Understanding ismailism is not restricted in above 3 points, we can also learn ismailism from Farmans, Ginanas, Qasidas.mazharshah wrote:Nizari Ismailism is very simple;
1. Understand meaning of our Du'a properly and apply accordingly.
2. Read and understand PREAMBLE of our constitution. Imam has explained
tenets of Islam and Ismailism. This is an official document by Imam because it bears signature of Imam.
3. To understand Ismailism and history, please read " THE RELIGION OF MY
ANCESTORS" by MSMS.
QUESTIONS USUALLY ASKED BY TEENAGERS, REC STUDENTS, AND JAMAITI MEMBERS WILL BE SOLVED.
I would say that Ismailism is based on these 3 pillars:
1) Love for THE Imam-e-Zaman
2) Faith in THE Imam-e-Zaman.
3) The understanding that Imam-e-Zaman and Imam-e-Mubeen are one and the same.
That's it.
If these three are present, everything else will follow. He who has these three will never fear because he knows that he will always remain under the protection of The Imam.
1) Love for THE Imam-e-Zaman
2) Faith in THE Imam-e-Zaman.
3) The understanding that Imam-e-Zaman and Imam-e-Mubeen are one and the same.
That's it.
If these three are present, everything else will follow. He who has these three will never fear because he knows that he will always remain under the protection of The Imam.
To Admin:Ya Ali Madad.
I agree with you in a way.
For an Ismaili
First n foremost a bayt and thru it total total total submission to the imam of the time.
And from it comes later the parts of HB/Dua.
Which IMAM OR PIR has told that three makes an Ismaili.
We have understand the BAATIN BAATIN of Dual.
Why we do not take Satan name before bismillah.
In first few line of dua we say Sajda wajihu.
That we bow Downto face of god.who is that face.observe closely we pray to ALI ALI n ALI
All the way. Allah comes as time pass name by default.
The absolute result of dual..is when 2 noorani Momin shake hand n see eye to eye n say Shah Jo deedar,the nation didar DOES DOES happen.I have experienced it.
.
I agree with you in a way.
For an Ismaili
First n foremost a bayt and thru it total total total submission to the imam of the time.
And from it comes later the parts of HB/Dua.
Which IMAM OR PIR has told that three makes an Ismaili.
We have understand the BAATIN BAATIN of Dual.
Why we do not take Satan name before bismillah.
In first few line of dua we say Sajda wajihu.
That we bow Downto face of god.who is that face.observe closely we pray to ALI ALI n ALI
All the way. Allah comes as time pass name by default.
The absolute result of dual..is when 2 noorani Momin shake hand n see eye to eye n say Shah Jo deedar,the nation didar DOES DOES happen.I have experienced it.
.
My personal faith is that I would never say Auzubillah before Bismillah, especially in Jk or inthe presence of Imam. This is so insulting!nuseri wrote:To Admin:Ya Ali Madad.
Why we do not take Satan name before bismillah.
What use is it to be in Jk or in the presence of Imam if one believe Satan is also present there (unless Satan comes also for Didar
This is my opinion.
Admin
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mazharshah
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nuseri wrote:To Admin:Ya Ali Madad.
I agree with you in a way.
For an Ismaili
First n foremost a bayt and thru it total total total submission to the imam of the time.
And from it comes later the parts of HB/Dua.
This person has self certified himself as non Ismaili
by stating dua.and two data unread or practiced in Jk.
Which IMAM OR PIR has told that three makes an Ismaili.
We have understand the BAATIN BAATIN of Dual.
Why we do not take Satan name before bismillah.
In first few line of dua we say Sajda wajihu.
That we bow Downto face of god.who is that face.observe closely we pray to ALI ALI n ALI
All the way. Allah comes as time pass name by default.
The absolute result of dual..is when 2 noorani Momin shake hand n see eye to eye n say Shah Jo deedar,the nation didar DOES DOES happen.I have experienced it.
.
The 3 items which I mentioned are the documents given by our Imam for religious and spiritual benefit of Nizari Ismailis, obviously Nizari Ismailis are called when they have bayt of Imam or on behalf of Imam. Obey the farman of Imam that Ali is from Allah. The name Allah is not by default but it is fault of your corrupt thinking.
In the paragraph" SAJADA WAJHI ILAIK " there is no mention of face of Allah,
but SAJADA is in past tense means ' my face prostrated thee '( in past ). I encourage you to learn proper meaning of Du'a.
Ya Ali Madad:
sajad vajhi ilayak.
Mean 'MAI SIJDA KARTA HU TERE CHERE KE AAGE.
as I am personally out of motion of dua,a senior Quran scholar has reconfirmed this to me.
Vajhi mean face n ilayak yours.
Ali+lah=Allah is most intelligent to pik n choose the words.
Now my absolute view.
Sajda means to bow,prostrste,salute,etc.a human head is part of that action by defult
There is not sajda word with sajda with my face.sound stupid.
Or later sajda with head or sajda with my whole body or sajda with my upper body or only hand.
sajad vajhi ilayak.
Mean 'MAI SIJDA KARTA HU TERE CHERE KE AAGE.
as I am personally out of motion of dua,a senior Quran scholar has reconfirmed this to me.
Vajhi mean face n ilayak yours.
Ali+lah=Allah is most intelligent to pik n choose the words.
Now my absolute view.
Sajda means to bow,prostrste,salute,etc.a human head is part of that action by defult
There is not sajda word with sajda with my face.sound stupid.
Or later sajda with head or sajda with my whole body or sajda with my upper body or only hand.
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junglikhan4
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:09 pm
nuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad:
sajad vajhi ilayak.
Mean 'MAI SIJDA KARTA HU TERE CHERE KE AAGE.
as I am personally out of motion of dua,a senior Quran scholar has reconfirmed this to me.
Vajhi mean face n ilayak yours.
Ali+lah=Allah is most intelligent to pik n choose the words.
Now my absolute view.
Sajda means to bow,prostrste,salute,etc.a human head is part of that action by defult
There is not sajda word with sajda with my face.sound stupid.
Or later sajda with head or sajda with my whole body or sajda with my upper body or only hand.
Please look at the proper meaning and grammar of " SAJADA WAJHI ILAIK ",
SAJADA means, I prostrated. (It is in past tense according to Arabic gramer).
WAJHI means, my face.
ILAIK means towards you.
In Urdu the meaning will be," mery charey ney teri taraf (tery aagey) sajda kia. ( according to grammar 'karta hu(n)' is not correct). This phrase of Du'a is reminder of the sajda in AZAL ( ETERNITY). Practically sajada is complete, when a person bow down and place his/her fore head on ground or floor.
(not like ours, to raise the finger, scratch the nose and sajada is complete).
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junglikhan4
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mazharshah
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- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:08 pm
There is a very crucial farman in Kalam e Imam e Mubin, I need feed back on this farman of MSMS.
MSMS said," Mowla Ali farmaviyu(n) ke hu(n) Khuda ne jou(n) nahi tou ibadat pan(n) karu(n) nahi(n). Khuda ne je koi potana aa(n)khu(n) thi juay nahi tou, teni aa(n)khu(n) andhi chhey".
Translation; Mowla Ali said, (If) I do not see Khuda (Allah), I shall not do his ibadat. If no one sees Khuda (while bandagi)with his/her eyes is considered blind.
Urdu translation; Mowla Ali ne farmaya, Mai(n) Khuda ko na dekhu(n) tou uss ki ibadat bhi nahi karu(n). Jo apni aankhu(n) se Khuda ko na dekhey tou uss ki aa(n)khe(n) andhi hai(n).
Manjewri; 31 Dec, 1893.
Kalam e Imam e Mubin, printed by Ismailia Association for India, Bombay.
Published in 1950. Farman # 20. Page #61.
MSMS said," Mowla Ali farmaviyu(n) ke hu(n) Khuda ne jou(n) nahi tou ibadat pan(n) karu(n) nahi(n). Khuda ne je koi potana aa(n)khu(n) thi juay nahi tou, teni aa(n)khu(n) andhi chhey".
Translation; Mowla Ali said, (If) I do not see Khuda (Allah), I shall not do his ibadat. If no one sees Khuda (while bandagi)with his/her eyes is considered blind.
Urdu translation; Mowla Ali ne farmaya, Mai(n) Khuda ko na dekhu(n) tou uss ki ibadat bhi nahi karu(n). Jo apni aankhu(n) se Khuda ko na dekhey tou uss ki aa(n)khe(n) andhi hai(n).
Manjewri; 31 Dec, 1893.
Kalam e Imam e Mubin, printed by Ismailia Association for India, Bombay.
Published in 1950. Farman # 20. Page #61.
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mazharshah
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- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:08 pm
Admin wrote:How does that relate to the thread?
Already in this thread, there has been discussion that whether Imam is God or not. I wrote Imam is role model but was refuted. In this farman, Mowla Ali said
( as MSMS quoted ) if I don't see God, I shall not do His ibadat. My crucial question is God who, for whom Mowla Ali said If I shall not see Him with my eyes, I won't do His ibadat. It means there is superior God to whom Mowla Ali pointed. Or in other words Mowla Ali was demonstrating in front of follwers as a role model.
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mazharshah
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Discussion on Pir and Piratan should not continue here. There is already one in this Forum. if you put "I wonder why there is no mention of "incarnation, devil, other sects, judaism, Budism., Fatimides, .." does that mean we have to discuss all these subjects here?
Please again this a is a request, be civilised and respect the rules of posting.
Please again this a is a request, be civilised and respect the rules of posting.
I think this question is appropriate for this thread as it mentions the preamble.mazharshah wrote:I wander why there is no mention of Pir or Piratan in the Preamble of our constitution? Any comment.
Pir and Piratan is a concept that is not recognised outside the Jamat, just as the Imam being the Mazhar of God is not recognised outside the Jamat (although it was mentioned in the Paris Conference resolution).
The constitution is the zaheri document in the sense that it is read outside the Jamat as well. So it cannot contain ideas that are not applicable for non-members of the Jamat.
Ya Ali madad.
Firstly ginans are part of traditions n not absolute path of tariqa.
Religion does not have 4 phases where one can choose horizontally. Sharia,tariqa,haqiqi& marifa.first two can be observed by zahiri donkeys as a part of religion. But haqiqat n marifa ate upward levels of faith/IMAAN.
It comes from firm belief,inspiration of tariqat upwardly.
This creeping moron has no common sense.
IMAM speaks as first person as God n also as pit/hujjat/second person directing to God.
When imam SMS referred to Hz Ali.
Same Hz Ali spoke as first person in khutba e bayan.
Same imam n aga Ali shah spoke of incident of Nuseri with Hz Ali,his status is well declared by many imams.
If Ali say That why sit in bandagi if one cannot see God,Right it send message to those who are not zahiri donkies that God is an entity that can be seen with eyes of living person,i dead bodies cannot see.
Read buk farmans,ask blessed Ismailia what they saw as Baatin didar,we plead for it every day.
Any human being with normal sense will lead a person to a greater power n rich than him.
Only IMAM does that so sees universe at 7 the level of intellect/Marita.
Einstein was genius at 6th level. Pir perse are blessed at 7th level are mentioned as Rasikunfilm.IT IS NOT EASY TO UNDERSTAND the truth of even few word of Qur'an by educated ,morons are billion miles.
Pir status can be understood in Qur'an, and that word is clearly mentioned in the constitution.
Firstly ginans are part of traditions n not absolute path of tariqa.
Religion does not have 4 phases where one can choose horizontally. Sharia,tariqa,haqiqi& marifa.first two can be observed by zahiri donkeys as a part of religion. But haqiqat n marifa ate upward levels of faith/IMAAN.
It comes from firm belief,inspiration of tariqat upwardly.
This creeping moron has no common sense.
IMAM speaks as first person as God n also as pit/hujjat/second person directing to God.
When imam SMS referred to Hz Ali.
Same Hz Ali spoke as first person in khutba e bayan.
Same imam n aga Ali shah spoke of incident of Nuseri with Hz Ali,his status is well declared by many imams.
If Ali say That why sit in bandagi if one cannot see God,Right it send message to those who are not zahiri donkies that God is an entity that can be seen with eyes of living person,i dead bodies cannot see.
Read buk farmans,ask blessed Ismailia what they saw as Baatin didar,we plead for it every day.
Any human being with normal sense will lead a person to a greater power n rich than him.
Only IMAM does that so sees universe at 7 the level of intellect/Marita.
Einstein was genius at 6th level. Pir perse are blessed at 7th level are mentioned as Rasikunfilm.IT IS NOT EASY TO UNDERSTAND the truth of even few word of Qur'an by educated ,morons are billion miles.
Pir status can be understood in Qur'an, and that word is clearly mentioned in the constitution.