WIYAAJ, LOTTO, GAMBLING, STOCK MARKETS.

mazharshah · Post by **mazharshah** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:00 pm

According to Quran and Ginans, Is wiyaaj (suud), interest on saving accounts,
3/5 year CD's or Drafts, lotto, gambling, or to invest in stock markets to make money is allowed in our Tariqa or not?

Post by **Admin** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:13 pm

Lotteries are already discussed here

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 2&start=30

Gambling is already being discussed here:

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ock+market

Do not mix up all issues in the same thread. First do a search, read what people have already said, keep the Forum clean. Just discuss each subjects in their respective thread. Thank you

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:23 pm

Discussion about Wyaaj (interest) can be found at:

FIRST UK ISLAMIC BANK OPENS ITS DOORS

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ic+banking

Admin,

Can you change the name of the above thread to ISLAMIC BANKING? Thanks

mazharshah · Post by **mazharshah** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:11 pm

Admin wrote:Lotteries are already discussed here

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 2&start=30

Gambling is already being discussed here:

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ock+market

Do not mix up all issues in the same thread. First do a search, read what people have already said, keep the Forum clean. Just discuss each subjects in their respective thread. Thank you

Your search engine took me to " sood, interest,lease " thread which is locked
that's why I have to start a new thread. It is not about betting on horse/cars racing. Please understand my question, I am exploring answers according to Quran, farman, and ginans. What these 3 sources give hidayat.

mazharshah · Post by **mazharshah** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:23 pm

kmaherali wrote:Discussion about Wyaaj (interest) can be found at:

FIRST UK ISLAMIC BANK OPENS ITS DOORS

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ic+banking

Admin,

Can you change the name of the above thread to ISLAMIC BANKING? Thanks

Islamic banking system is not perfect and mostly educated persons are not interested in it. At some point they have to invest in interest generating institutions and directors are not open to share holders. Lately mishandling of money is unearthed. In Pak billions of rupees were siphoned and disappeared. Why not we discuss about RIBBAH according to Quran and Ismaili literature.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:00 am

mazharshah wrote:Your search engine took me to " sood, interest,lease " thread which is locked
that's why I have to start a new thread. It is not about betting on horse/cars racing. Please understand my question, I am exploring answers according to Quran, farman, and ginans. What these 3 sources give hidayat.

There is discussion about guidance in those threads, so why not continue the discussion there and adding the Quran Farman and Ginans. We are just scattering information all over.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:02 am

mazharshah wrote: Islamic banking system is not perfect and mostly educated persons are not interested in it. At some point they have to invest in interest generating institutions and directors are not open to share holders. Lately mishandling of money is unearthed. In Pak billions of rupees were siphoned and disappeared. Why not we discuss about RIBBAH according to Quran and Ismaili literature.

There is gudance of MSMS in the thread. Why not continue discussion of RIBBAH there instead of scattering information everywhere?

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:55 am

Islamic banking system is not perfect and mostly educated persons are not interested in it. At some point they have to invest in interest generating institutions and directors are not open to share holders. Lately mishandling of money is unearthed. In Pak billions of rupees were siphoned and disappeared. Why not we discuss about RIBBAH according to Quran and Ismaili literature.

In islamic banking interest is Haram but Ribbah( interest in islamic banking) is not haram. But interest and Ribbah both are same, both are known as excessive amount on borrowed money.

According to Ginans, interest is Haram, according to Pir Saddardin in Granth Bavan Ghaati, interest is prohibited.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:08 am

Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah was approached by a banker in Pakistan for advice on Islamic banking. The Imam said two things on it.

- A hadith where the Holy Prophet had said that if during his lifetime the people of Arabia observed 90% of his injunctions, 10% would be forgiven. But after his death, if the followers observed even 10%, 90% would be forgiven.

- Only usury was forbidden, not the legitimate interest.

mazharshah · Post by **mazharshah** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:47 pm

ismaili103 wrote:
Islamic banking system is not perfect and mostly educated persons are not interested in it. At some point they have to invest in interest generating institutions and directors are not open to share holders. Lately mishandling of money is unearthed. In Pak billions of rupees were siphoned and disappeared. Why not we discuss about RIBBAH according to Quran and Ismaili literature.
In islamic banking interest is Haram but Ribbah( interest in islamic banking) is not haram. But interest and Ribbah both are same, both are known as excessive amount on borrowed money.

According to Ginans, interest is Haram, according to Pir Saddardin in Granth Bavan Ghaati, interest is prohibited.

Can you quote the wordings of ginan on interest. Thanks.

mazharshah · Post by **mazharshah** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:55 pm

kmaherali wrote:Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah was approached by a banker in Pakistan for advice on Islamic banking. The Imam said two things on it.

- A hadith where the Holy Prophet had said that if during his lifetime the people of Arabia observed 90% of his injunctions, 10% would be forgiven. But after his death, if the followers observed even 10%, 90% would be forgiven.

- Only usury was forbidden, not the legitimate interest.

Is it a farman?
What about pork, drugs and pornography!
In some cases credit cards charge 19.99% to 29.99%, which is called interest, and same rule apply to legitimate interest where a contract is signed.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:29 pm

Ya ALI madad.
What is the break up n sum of the word interest, fees,etc collected.
It total inflation rate+ default ratio+ cost of admin= rate of interest.
If wish to know from scholars in finance the fourth component as a test?
If in western countries if there was no interest income to lenders then only 10% would be owning home and 90% as a tenant paying rent,that would include interest inbulit by the landlord.
Today if 70% are are owning homes because of loans with interest from 3-5% pet annum is a blessing.
Prophet personal views n act fades away with the period,as they were mandated for that period.In old times few rich could claim a girl in lieu of interest as slave market was there.
I feel most members are reading too much into what is unwarranted,not supposed to be read at all n ats it face /zahiri value.
They should try to deeply understand few lines than simply understand million lines.
In any disputes the wise learned judge gives judgement and nobody cares two hoot
To hear from shabby uneducated mullah, their mathematical observation with 25% secular eduction, 3/4 pyjama, 6 inch bushy beard,O% baatin know of holy book.
so a civil definition stands VALID n not a fatwa of a mullah of a mosque where the word interest n its meaning is concerned. The mullah lives on mercy of fund giver has no earning activities of own.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:25 am

Can you quote the wordings of ginan on interest. Thanks

Agyaar mi gaattee doheli jaanno,
e moman bhaai tame sahi karee pichhaanno.

Sharaab, vyaaj bhaang tamaaku thi etaa dookh hoe.
Te tamo vichaari joe.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:32 am

ismaili103 wrote:Agyaar mi gaattee doheli jaanno,
e moman bhaai tame sahi karee pichhaanno.

Sharaab, vyaaj bhaang tamaaku thi etaa dookh hoe.
Te tamo vichaari joe.

Ghaattee 11

sharab, tamaaku, vyaaj khaanaar maattee ghaattee.

11th Pitfall

Pitfall for the ones who consume alcohol, tobacco, and (excessive) interest.

The entire granth is at:
BAAVAN GHAATTEE

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ht=ghaatee

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:58 am

mazharshah wrote:Is it a farman?
What about pork, drugs and pornography!
In some cases credit cards charge 19.99% to 29.99%, which is called interest, and same rule apply to legitimate interest where a contract is signed.

MSMS had a discussion with a murid which can be found at:

MY GLORIOUS FORTNIGHT WITH SIR SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... opic&t=335

About pork, drugs and pornography, there are specific Farmans.

It is legitimate if the company deems it appropriate according to the market conditions. We must also be aware that there are many defaults as well. But the notion of legitimate interest is sound, else our financial systems cannot function.