Ismaili Studies Conference

Discussion on ginan meanings, history etc..
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erumsuleman
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Ismaili Studies Conference

Post by erumsuleman »

Admin
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Post by Admin »

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You can download the booklet describing each of the 20 Ismaili manuscripts exhibited at Carleton University for the Ismaili Studies Conference from this link below:

http://ismaili.net/timeline/2017/ottawa-pamphlet-4.pdf

Display of Manuscripts dated 1700’s to early 1900’s from Ismaili and offshoot branches

The Heritage Society’s manuscript display is a tapestry of inks, colours, designs, styles, scripts, bindings and rare texts.

The Heritage Society has, since its first SOS Khojki Conference in 1990, expanded its collection of Ismaili manuscripts. Its 30 years of continuous effort has resulted in one of the largest accessible collection of Khojki Satpanthi Ismaili manuscripts.

The Satpanth denomination includes Satpanthi Guptis & Ismailis loyal to The Aga Khan, as well as ismailis who branched out such as Athias and ImamShahis.

Satpanthi manuscripts in Khojki and Gujrati scripts generally contain Dua (Prayers), Ceremonies, Ginans (Gnosis), History, Farmans, Astrology, Mathematics, Hadiths, Qisas, Records, accounts of the community and a variety of other subjects.

The manuscripts on display include the oldest text of Kalame Mowla, unpublished ginans, prayers of the Athias, the 73 prayers of the Imam Shahis, Dua of the Ismailis as recited by Pir Shabuddin Shah, Farmans of Aga Janghi Shah, illustrated ImamShahi manuscripts, correspondence in various languages from previous Imams with their original seals.

Exhibited at:
The 2nd International Ismaili Studies Conference – Mapping a Pluralist Space in Ismaili Studies, Carleton University, Ottawa. March 10, 2017

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Last edited by Admin on Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
erumsuleman
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Post by erumsuleman »

It has been six months since the largest ever gathering on Ismaili Studies. More than 200 delegates attended the "Mapping a Pluralist Space in Ismaili Studies" conference at Carleton University in Ottawa, which had presenters from 12 countries. A wide range of topics were addressed, including those that have been understudied.

The conference's Proceedings can be viewed at the link below:


https://carleton.ca/islamstudies/wp-con ... SC2017.pdf
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To Alijan: Ya Ali Madad.
My compliments for your passion in ginans and khojki at a very young age.There is also Ismaili103 sharpening up in Karachi.
Today young jamat wish/want future leads from present time farmans and maybe not the copy pastes/scanned images of pages in languages they do not even wish to know.
Views on diamond jubilee celebration are appx 25000 each in 45 days and on copy paste and story of the past hardly one percent of it.Accept the reality.
I did once heard you in YouTube for one minute maybe as it was long did not continue it to hear it
It was on the word ' khand' used in Ginans.
In india the general meaning means a region ( as said for states like Jharkhand,Uttarkhand,Bundelkhand's).
there could many meanings to it.
Can you just tell your view in NOT MORE than 3-4 lines the alternate meanings?
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To Alijan: Ya Ali Madad.
I will see the download and surely read/see which I deem of value to me
I presume that I have read or heard the words 'Vaikunth Khand'
What does that means?
My belief is that in research if one can try to go for quality than quantity ,It can get handsome payoff.
Keep your good work going.
shivaathervedi
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Post by shivaathervedi »

Did Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah wrote any book in KHOJKI script by himself and was that published?
Admin
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Post by Admin »

Ye Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah's Farman were published in Khojki and he knew about them, he has also mentioned those of his Farmans books published in Gujrati. There are many many Farman books published in Khojki.

Yes I have seen farmans written in Khojki with the endorsement Seal of Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah on it.

The thread is on the material pertaining to this specific conference. USOOL WA FUROO E DEEN discussion has been moved to Book section in the Forum
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To Alijaan:Ya Ali MADAD;
The generalised meaning of vaikunth is abode of God ( not neccasariy heaven).
So vaikunt khand be region of abode .not a heaven bay.
As in small hut where lord rama stayed during exile is called vaikunt kutir.( it is on Earth)
In same way word deep mean island in Hindi like lankadeep,lasksadeep.
So the words jampudeep and khand are just poetical expression of possible geographical terrain( bay,valley, island,region,etc) nothing to gaga over there two words and has no spiritual value status.Like word saat samudar are used for the world in poems
In Hindi news TV they call bay of Bengal as Bengal khaadi and not Bengal khand.
If a pirs /syed compose they try use with the best available words meaning the same in essence.
Like Ejee satgur boliya sound could possibily more meledious than Ejee Sami/Guru Boliya.
You are capable of doing much better for research rather than google the meanings on website.
It should add value of greater importance.
I am reading presentations of the conference.
Your initial effort at your age is noteworthy.KEEP IT UP.
MAY MOULA BLESS YOU.
erumsuleman
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Post by erumsuleman »

Your comparison between the two words Satgur and Sami is illogical. You cannot replace Satgur (True Guide) with Sami (Lord). Such an extreme stance is neither reasonable nor acceptable.

Thank You for your suggestion and praise!!!

There are many things in Nakalanki Gita which I could not highlight in my presentation due to shortage of time. I am in process of writing a book on Nakalanki Gita which I hope would be published after my book of Unpublished Ginans.

Have you studied Nakalanki Gita? And do you know Khojki or Gujarati?? If yes, then we can have an interesting discussion on that..

Regards,
Ali Jan Damani

Independent Scholar
Karachi, Pakistan
+92-321-2744563
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To Alijaan: Ya Ali MADAD:
If Pirs/Syeds mention the words Sami/lord or satgur/true guide
in one ginan & other one in different Ginan .Whom are they referring or mean or the entity is.?
I would also like opinions of senior scholars like kmaherali and Admin on above
I am not good in Gujarati, but do not underestimate me.
An immature and hasty conclusion can be a sign of ignorance and frustration.
erumsuleman
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Post by erumsuleman »

I respect each and every scholar of the time. I think this is the discussion we can follow on some other relevant thread. I mean the thread which is specifically for ginanic terms. Or we can discuss via email or whatsapp.

I am not underestimating you and your skills.

Yeah, the relevant scholars can add things on it.

You know for the study of ginans, we need to have strong grip over these south asian languages. Nevertheless, we also need to have strong analysis skills.

Generally speaking, the skills of admin are in Khojki. He is not an expert of ginanic language. No personal offence please!!!! Not only admin, no one is expert!!! Even I consider myself as a person who has no experience in this field.

Do you know that Naklanki Gita has countless errors in it. Do you know that the publications of Lalji Devraj are not completely reliable from an academic point of view.

Let me give two examples to shorten the discussion.

1. If you study the garbi Sate Pawal Pijo Din Ane Raat by Pir Shams, it states the name of Pir Sadardin. How is it possible??? Who was pir shams to decide that who would become the next Pir?? Daftary notes this point in almost all of his books that the Nizari Imams were the only authority to decide who would become the next Pir. So, it doesn't mean that Pir Shams challenged the authority of Imam. Instead, it shows that these are much later compositions.. :wink:

2. The ginan Bhaiyo Bharame Na Bhuliyen is attributed to Pir Satgur Nur. However, it sounds like a modern composition. Last month, a private individual showed me a manuscript which states that this ginan is by Pir Ghulam Ali Shah. Now this sounds logical because at the time of Pir Satgur Nur, there was Prakrit and Sanskrit rather than the modern Gujarati which sounds in this ginan.

In the end, I would like to state that I respect all the scholars, admin and the readers as well.

Thank You.


Regards,
Ali Jan Damani

Independent Scholar
Karachi, Pakistan
+92-321-2744563
Admin
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Post by Admin »

erumsuleman wrote: Generally speaking, the skills of admin are in Khojki. He is not an expert of ginanic language. No personal offence please!!!! Not only admin, no one is expert!!!
Ali Jan Damani

Independent Scholar
Karachi, Pakistan
+92-321-2744563
I have been studying and translating Ginans and Granths since many decades.
I think that for someone who was not yet born when I was already organising Ginan Conferences, you have a very hasty and low opinion of others.

I suggest that you go discuss your "expertise" in the field in some other forums that you feel are more to your standard.
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To Alijaan: Ya Ali MADAD.
As you noted that two word have different meanings ,so did I and others knew or google it.
Assuming if the word Sami or Satgur are in same Ginan.( one to express status of Pir/Imam and other for God for same entity.
Does this discovery is rocket science or go gaga over it or become presentation wasting everybody time.
It would be better understand line by line the ruhaniyat ginan of Pir Sadarddin ,to higlhlight his composition skill and submission.( will post some examples)
BTW the meaning of word khand is debateble ,even if derived of anaskrit word Khaadi.one can google it.
NUSERI
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Post by Admin »

AJDMISSIONARY wrote: I am translating ginans, I know Khojki and Gujarati, I know Farsi. Does that make me a ginan expert??? No!!!!
Ali Jan Damani
I don't know when you learned all these languages, in January you only knew Urdu and English. Now you are an expert in Gujrati and Farsi and have become a missionary still being a teenager, congratulation!
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To Alijan : Ya Ali Madad.
Congratulations to having 4 login id for yourself..
In a Ginan by Imam Begum of 'Dasi teree'.
If a religious school student of 09 years old tell others that two words in one line that is Daasi and the word moula have different meaning.for the same entity
That is expected common sense of every student .
So different meaning of word khaand and jampudeep ( none has spiritual importance AT ALL) is a primary student work.
What is so special about it.
It is totally waste of time ,energy and intellect over unwarranted common sense.
You may got carried over it.
As you assume yourself as scholar in ginans n gujrati.
I recently asked for specific observation in on Ginan ' TU CHET MUN MERAA'.
I waited 3 days for someone to answer.NOBODY DID.
Can I ask few more simple questions of and from Ginans.?
I do not have good grasp over Ginan or Gujrati language.,but would be able at least 12++ questions over period of time.
AJD
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Post by AJD »

I am planning to submit a proposal for an entire panel rather than an individual proposal. Anyone interested in presenting a paper at the conference??? Please contact me directly. The following link contains relevant information.

http://www.brais.ac.uk/conferences/brai ... rence-2018

Ali Jan
Karachi, Pakistan
+92-321-2744563
alijandamani@yahoo.com
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To kmaherali,Admin,AJD: Ya Ali Madad.

I briefly went thru the down load of the conference,( thanks to AJD) all have made good effort in the topic they presented.
I noted one on fidai's of Alalmut with Chinese manuscript a good research done.
I feel I can personally if I get their email address,info can suggest some topic they can go into and make a worthwhile presentation as most was general copy paste stuff.not much of originality or essence in nature.
I feel from 04 topics I have one can be done jointly by kmaherali (I totally respect his grasp in Ginans) and AJD if they do on this topic.
We have the word TAWHID in our preamble ( oneness with GOD/Ali).
I have observed most pir,dai,syed were is those status and expressed it poetically.I am giving 03 observations ,if a good research with good articulation of those extracts is done ,it can be good/great source n reference in future for IIS,alwaez,scholars in the years ahead.
1.)Pir Shams Tabriz saying DUM Hume dum Ali Ali.
At essence he mean he lives and exist in ALI ( implied state of tawhid).
2.(Pir Sadarddin in ginan Gun tera sami raja ,the lines are Noore Noor ja milya ,Noore ta Noor samaya( implied state of tawhid).
3.)Syed Imam begum.in ginan Darshan Diyo Mora naath.the lines are Hur DUM moula maraa ridha ( heart) mahee rehjo jee,Alga maa hoje ek sass ( not get separated for one beat of heart or breath) that is precise expression of their souls..
Infact in masnavi of rumi has spoken as ( first person) I as Ali ,as if Ali is speaking out or his body ( same as brand name Allah spoke out of body of prophet.)( total tawhid)
I AM SURE kmaherali & ADJ would be able to find 50+more extracts and make good presentation for next conference.
I do not wish to be part of Any team ,but can offer original lead,ideas ,support to work on it, f needed ,if any verse looks dicey or unable to articulate its meaning ,I can communicate in private with kmaherali only if need be.
There are 03 topics more,which I will email to those presenters in last conference.for them to consider
Matter of substance is important.
If this sound as a stupid work effort then drop it in first place.
Have one for Admin as well.
As I am not educated.I am totally dependant scholar ,that I use the words Ya Ali MADAD to help me throughout in all my postings as I have no books to read ,so I am totally DEPEND upon him.It does not make me small as even greatest entity in Islam that is prophet used those words to take help from Ali and sought none whatsoever from Allah then and took on the world .SO CAN WE.
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Post by Admin »

The subject of this thread is

Ismaili Studies Conference
Last edited by Admin on Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Admin »

nuseri wrote:To Admin:
Ya Ali MADAD.
March 2017 is now a distant PAST.,So scholars can seek topics for 2018 or beyond that.
This topic will welcome news about publications related to this particular Conference but not about other Conferences.

For example there is a symposium organised by the IIS on manuscripts in London on 12th and 13th October. If you want to discuss this one, just open a new topic specific to that Conference.
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Post by Admin »

Here are the links to the Proceedings (report) of the Ismaili Studies Conference https://carleton.ca/islamstudies/wp-content/uploa ds/Proceedings-of-ISC2017.pdf ,

the slide show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT4qEPimZxY ,

and video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI6cH4A1N6U
kmaherali
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Post by kmaherali »

Proceedings from Ismaili Studies Conference Ottawa

https://twitter.com/carletonislam/statu ... 3798134784
kmaherali
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Post by kmaherali »

Proceedings of the 2nd International Ismaili Studies Conference

http://www.academia.edu/36131837/PROCEE ... CONFERENCE
kmaherali
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Post by kmaherali »

2021 Ismaili Studies Conference: August 6-10 Online & Free

Dear Friends,

The Third International Ismaili Studies Conference (ISC2021) organized by Dr. Khalil Andani (Augustana College) and Ahab Bdaiwi (Leiden University) is taking place this week. The Conference will be held virtually on Zoom from Friday, August 6 to Tuesday, August 10, 2021.

Register for free at

https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/registe ... rhtaid=998

This year's ISC includes:

* Keynote Address by Prof. Karim H. Karim on Friday, August 6 at 1:00pm (EST).
* Scholarly panels on Ismaili history and historiography, esoteric exegesis, devotional literature, contemporary Ismaili theological reflection, and modern Ismaili leadership, identity, and religiosity.
* the announcement of the (inaugural) 2021 Karim and Rosemin Karim Prize;
* a concluding Scholars Roundtable featuring senior scholars of Ismaili Studies.

Speakers include: Paul Walker, Ismail Poonawala, Ali Asani, David Hollenberg, Tazim Kassam, Mushegh Asatryan, Karim H. Karim, Shin Nomoto, Khalil Andani, and many more.

View full program:

https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/en/ne ... gistration
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Post by Admin »

TOMORROW! 2021, FRIDAY AUGUST 6:

ISMAILI STUDIES CONFERENCE Starts online: 6 to 10 August 2021 - 50 lectures, 5 days. Follow live on ismaili.net - The lsmaili Studies Conference 2021 is being organized by the Leiden University Shii Studies Initiative. Due to pandemic conditions, the entirety of the ISC 2021 will take place virtually (see below). Registration is free and open to the public. ! Welcome to the Third International lsmaili Studies Conference, "Histories, Philosophies and Communities," organized by the Leiden University Shii Studies Initiative. This Conference builds on the progress of the 2014 and 2017 Ismaili Studies Conferences held at the University of Chicago and Carleton University respectively.

REGISTRATION: bit.ly/IsmailiStudiesConference

FOLLOW LIVE ON www.ismaili.net
or
on https://youtu.be/jPxpzAEZ4Ms?list=PL4kU ... YZ-0SpCHri

READ PROGRAM: http://ismaili.net/timeline/2021/isc-2021-program.pdf
kmaherali
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Post by kmaherali »

We are pleased to invite you to two-day online Conference Jointly by University of Mumbai Department of Sindhi and Association for the Study of Ginans

We are pleased to invite you to two-day online Conference Jointly by University of Mumbai Department of Sindhi and Association for the Study of Ginans

Medieval Indic Devotional and Mystical Literature
7 Dec 2021 03:00 PM London -Indic Devotional Traditions
8 Dec 2021 03:00 PM London -Satpanth Literature and Indic Devotional Poetry

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9150118939?pw ... 4xSUJHQT09

Join our Cloud HD Video Meeting

Zoom is the leader in modern enterprise video communications, with an easy, reliable cloud platform for video and audio conferencing, chat, and webinars across mobile, desktop, and room systems. Zoom Rooms is the original software-based conference room solution used around the world in board, conference, huddle, and training rooms, as well as executive offices and classrooms. Founded in 2011, Zoom helps businesses and organizations bring their teams together in a frictionless environment to get more done. Zoom is a publicly traded company headquartered in San Jose, CA.
us02web.zoom.us

Meeting ID: 915 011 8939
Passcode: muag21

London: 3:00 PM GMT
Mumbai: 8:30 PM IST
Karachi: 8:00 PM
Toronto: 10:00 AM
Miami: 10:00 AM
Houston: 09:00 AM
Edmonton/Calgary: 8:00 AM
LA/Vancouver: 07:00 AM
East Africa: 6:00 PM
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