ROHANI ROSHNI,An understanding.

[agakhani]

a_27826
Once again thank you very much for suggesting that website.
It seems very wel organized and informative website I will use this website more often rather then look in Quran starting today. It look like ready references for me!!
Shiraz,
Can you suggest any website like this?

[zznoor]

Bro a_27826,
Find some reliable Shia history books you will find what I wrote above.I can suggest some books if you want to read.
That IS true that changes in Quran started H.Usman time but it was not ended till the Abbasi caliph Haroon Al Rashid and so on.
The Major changes were taken place during the time of Muawia and Yazid Palit that is for sure.

It is white faced lie

[a_27826]

a_27826
Once again thank you very much for suggesting that website.
It seems very wel organized and informative website I will use this website more often rather then look in Quran starting today. It look like ready references for me!!
Shiraz,
Can you suggest any website like this?

sometimes I use Word by Word Translator in http://corpus.quran.com/

[a_27826]

Oh Oh

This topic has turned from "Ruhani Roshni" to "Is Quran Incomplete?"

Lets get back to "Ruhani Roshni" before Admin finds out and closes the topic.

[nuseri]

To a_27282:Ya Ali Madad.

Many thanks for enlightened 5 ayats on 'Face'.

Please if you can post translated Ayats n their numbers of 'Allah Having Hands',Allah and/with hands' etc. in one segment.

and Ali+lah=Allah sitting on a throne/watching with eyes,throne,etc in other segment.

I am keen to get answers on simple Ayats which a primary school student does not need to be explained.

If one does not accept the words of Allah then how can one call itself
a faithful Muslim? (A practicing one may be yes/no?)


To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.
You are the only Shariati here and not as WE as you write,who has authorized you.
You are LEFT OUT(marooned) not in main but in a wide n shallow stream presently identified as bunch of Beard,Burqa n Bombs(BBB).That is precisely your marooned stream Hallmark today.Swim out of it or get blasted n drowned in it.(cannot drown as it is shallow).

[zznoor]

Br Nuseri
ASAK
I am Muslim and we Muslim gereet each other with traditional greeting. I will appreciate it if you use generic greeting like hallow.
YAM does not mean anything to me.
Salaam brother

[zznoor]

You are the only Shariati here and not as WE as you write,who has authorized you.

I would wish you learn to write clearly
Whose authority I need to participate in discussion so long as I am respectful to Ismaili religion and MHI.

[nuseri]

To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad. Ya Ali+lah(Allah) Madad.

Admin is a' BIG FOOL' to entertain you on the site.He is presuming n FALSELY hoping that you may one day follow Ismailism in Future.

He may be not fully aware that you are ONLY ONLY here for the 5 candles agenda n derailing topics. You have shown great great respect for MHI in your past postings n maybe Admin loves that.

Now you are advising the site members to change our salutation n greetings from YAM to ASAK.

Even Prophet seek helped from H.Ali by calling out 'YA ALI MADAD' on the ground and not to Allah in the sky for help. (He knew who Allah was).

YAM may does not mean anything to a gutter level Shariati but IT did mean a lot a Marfati level Prophet.

NAA AAP TO QURAN KO SAMJHE HO
YA TO USKE PAIGHAMBER KO.
BUS BHOKE,BHOKE AUR BHOKE JAA RAHE HO

[zznoor]

Now you are advising the site members to change our salutation n greetings from YAM to ASAK.

No I am not asking Ismailis to greet each other by YAM. I am Muslim and YAM does not mean anything to me. Would you greet a Hindu or Christian with YAM?

Even Prophet seek helped from H.Ali by calling out 'YA ALI MADAD' on the ground and not to Allah in the sky for help. (He knew who Allah was). (He

Ya prophet was a puppet. It was Hz Ali pulling strings.

He knew who Allah was

One of most ignorant things to say by so called Muslim

[agakhani]

It is white faced lie

No, it is not lie but it is 101% true didn't I told you that if you do not have any reliable sources you should shut off your mouth or not post any comments!?? did you forget that this quickly?

While I have reliable sources which proves my above comments, Would you like to know? but you have to read all books which I suggest no if or but.

[agakhani]

Ya prophet was a puppet. It was Hz Ali pulling strings.

Shame to you, using the word "Puppet" for Prophet, it is a big insult to a great Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) if you were true Muslim ( I am not talking about true Ismaili because if you were then you have not left Ismaili religion) then you should not used above words 'puppet' for that prophet who was the last prophet , no prophet had came after him and was a leader of all prophets!

If any Mullah read your post then I think he starts 'FATWA' against you, or declare Kafiroon, no doubt about that.

Your above comments clearly shows your frustration, your many posts also shows that you are fighting hard to prove we Ismaili are on wrong path and you had chosen right step to convert from Ismaili to Sunny but don't you think that even after you used all your weapons you failed very badly? you couldn't and will not harm 'THE IMAN OF TRUE ISMAILIS IN THIS FORUM.

You must heard this idiom

" DHOBI KA KUTTA NA GHAR KA NA GHAT KA"

[zznoor]

Shame to you, using the word "Puppet" for Prophet, it is a big insult to a great Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) if you were true Muslim ( I am not talking about true Ismaili because if you were then you have not left Ismaili religion) then you should not used above words 'puppet' for that prophet who was the last prophet , no prophet had came after him and was a leader of all prophets!

If one uses little brain he will understand the comment.

[shiraz.virani]

Agakhani bhai wrote :

Shiraz,
Can you suggest any website like this?

I usually use quran explorer

Anyways coming back to the current topic, most of my friends on here are busy trying to prove superiority of their faith against another.

I wonder how one can reach that station of enlightenment if we are busy abusing each other. If you have nothing related to the topic please do not put un-necessary garbage.

Instead of sharing our views on those who reached that stage in the past, with all due respect most of you are talking nonsense.

Please stay on the topic...thanks !!!

[ShamsB]

Now you are advising the site members to change our salutation n greetings from YAM to ASAK.

No I am not asking Ismailis to greet each other by YAM. I am Muslim and YAM does not mean anything to me. Would you greet a Hindu or Christian with YAM?

Even Prophet seek helped from H.Ali by calling out 'YA ALI MADAD' on the ground and not to Allah in the sky for help. (He knew who Allah was). (He

Ya prophet was a puppet. It was Hz Ali pulling strings.

He knew who Allah was

One of most ignorant things to say by so called Muslim

You are on an ismaili site - incase you haven't noticed.

Inspite of all your defecating (google it) all over the site - like the Prophet - we are being respectful to you and still asking Ali to help you.

You need to read Muslim and Tabari when they speak of the Battle of Khaybar to understand what Ali meant to the Prophet.

And the Qur'an you speak of - tell me - who went in and corrected the dictatorial marks? Keep in mind - that the Qur'an was rewritten in Quraysh Arabic - versus all other dialects or versions of arabic - but it didn't have the punctuation, grammar or markings that it has today....

When did those come in? - whose interpretation?

This is a battle that you have lost - completely...i'll break it down for you

if you come at me saying - FAITH - qur'an is complete etc..

then i'll come back at you saying - FAITH - Quran is incomplete - and i have history and the farmans of the Imams to prove it. and our Faith is on the Imam.

And if you say - you're right - then you have lost the battle.

Why don't you just leave and follow your faith -

didn't the al qaeda just issue a fatwa forbidding harassment of other muslims?

Oh wait - i forgot - you have become the sole authority on the definition of who a muslim is and who isn't? right?

Angel Jibreel comes nightly with a revelation for you as well.

Shams

[Admin]

Lets all return to the subject of the thread and leave aside personal attacks.

[tret]

Ya prophet was a puppet. It was Hz Ali pulling strings.

Maulana Ali and beloved Prophet are from the same Noor as Prophet himself mentioned it on many occasions.

Does prophetship appears as pulling strings to you?

[nuseri]

To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.

In many many years you have written the truth,I must congratulate you on it.

" Ya prophet was a puppet. It was Hz Ali pulling strings."

So you have agreed to it.

You got entrapped in making a true statement in rather in different n sarcastic way.Even Satan has to speak truth some day.


It was/is ALI ALI all the way who Managed the invisible strings of all
the Prophets who came on Earth.

One of the visible strings during Prophet's time was Salman Faras( Jibrael firasta/ Archangel Gabreil.)

In our Baatin Tariqa,I have mentioned that as Part of 'Rohani Roshini',
Imam SMS has said to study the soul of a human.(along with Light on FACE)

At times in spite of having senses n Intellect I feel as a qualitative puppet with strings held by ALI.

It once so happened I attended a seminar ( non religious) I was purposely told to speak on a subject in which I did not know 1% of it for five minutes.It was video-graphed.

I just started nervously with the words YAM to a Non Ismaili super Intellect audience.I won over everybody and must have defeated all other speakers there.
When I saw the video recording.I was a Puppet and it was ALI pulling the strings for full 5 minutes,I did not fully believed what I had said.

EK AALA HASTI AGAR PUPPET HO SAKTHI HAI.
AAP TO KOI CHEEZ HI NAHI.
ALI KE PUPPET AAP BHI BAN JAAVO
HO JAO ALI ALI AUR ALI.

[shiraz.virani]

Nuseri wrote :

One of the visible strings during Prophet's time was Salman Faras( Jibrael firasta/ Archangel Gabreil.)

Salman Farsi was H.Jibraeel[as] ???....Any proof to back this up ???

[a_27826]

Please if you can post translated Ayats n their numbers of 'Allah Having Hands',Allah and/with hands' etc. in one segment.

and Ali+lah=Allah sitting on a throne/watching with eyes,throne,etc in other segment. .

Yadu = hand

003:073 Your hand is the good; You are powerful over everything.

003:073 Say: 'Surely bounty is in the hand of God; He gives it unto whomsoever He wills; and God is All-embracing, All-knowing.

005:064 His hands are outspread; He expends how He will


039:067 the heavens shall be rolled up in His right hand. Glory be to Him! High be He exalted above that they associate!

048:010 Verily, those who swear allegiance to you do but swear allegiance to God; God's hand is over their hands

[tret]

It once so happened I attended a seminar ( non religious) I was purposely told to speak on a subject in which I did not know 1% of it for five minutes.It was video-graphed.

I just started nervously with the words YAM to a Non Ismaili super Intellect audience.I won over everybody and must have defeated all other speakers there.
When I saw the video recording.I was a Puppet and it was ALI pulling the strings for full 5 minutes,...

Please provide evidence, and since it was video graphed it shouldn't be hard.

[zznoor]

Please if you can post translated Ayats n their numbers of 'Allah Having Hands',Allah and/with hands' etc. in one segment.

and Ali+lah=Allah sitting on a throne/watching with eyes,throne,etc in other segment. .

Yadu = hand

003:073 Say: 'Surely bounty is in the hand of God; He gives it unto whomsoever He wills; and God is All-embracing, All-knowing.

Full Aya is as follows

(3:73) They also say among themselves: 'Do not follow anyone except him who follows your faith.' Say: 'Surely true guidance is Allah's. It is His favour that anyone should be given the like of what you have been given in the past, and that others should have been given firm evidence to proffer against you before your Lord.' Say: 'Surely bounty is in the Hand of Allah; He gives it to whom He wills. Allah is All-Embracing, *62 All-Knowing.

*62. The word wasi' which is used here occurs in the Qur'an in three contexts. The first context is the narrow-mindedness and mean outlook of certain people, in contrast to which God is not 'narrow'. The second context is the denunciation of miserliness, meanness and niggardliness, in contrast to which God is Generous and Munificent. The third context is the ascription of finite, limited concepts to God as a result of their limitedimagination, whereas the truth is that God is infinite (see Surah 2, n. 116 above).

[zznoor]

" Ya prophet was a puppet. It was Hz Ali pulling strings."

Come on brothers
You guys are so dumb that you fail to see sarcasm in what I posted.

Btw I have also read that some Shia claim that Gibreal revealed Quran to Prophet instead of Hz Ali by mistake,

One guy excoriates me for this and Ali parast is happy.

[zznoor]

ALI KE PUPPET AAP BHI BAN JAAVO

Hz Ali was human being and it is Kufr to consider him as subprime deity.

[tret]

ALI KE PUPPET AAP BHI BAN JAAVO

Hz Ali was human being and it is Kufr to consider him as subprime deity.

Do you believe in the concept of dualism/duality?

Those who only see zahir, see only zahir of the Imam. If you look at sun directly with naked eye, you will become blind. It's useful and beneficial to benefit from sun's light. Those who look at Maulana Ali (The Imams) just as another human being because they live as human, are like those who try to look directly at sun and their inner eyes can become blind and will fail to see the Devine.

[nuseri]

To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.

You wrote 'Prophet was a Puppet.'
Any proof with events and puppet shows held then.

Does Allah has hands?
Please reply yes or no from Ayats just posted?.
No sermons/crap on what does the hand means other than real hand.


Can anybody post a Hadith by Aisha mentioning the Prophet n Salman Faras.
and also regarding Salman Faras ,the base case starts from Christianity.

Today I now have to go n study for 'Billboard Investments' of which I have 5% general information,I am running late for it.

[zznoor]

To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.

You wrote 'Prophet was a Puppet.'
Any proof with events and puppet shows held then.

Does Allah has hands?
Please reply yes or no from Ayats just posted?.
No sermons/crap on what does the hand means other than real hand.


Can anybody post a Hadith by Aisha mentioning the Prophet n Salman Faras.
and also regarding Salman Faras ,the base case starts from Christianity.

Today I now have to go n study for 'Billboard Investments' of which I have 5% general information,I am running late for it.

Don't have any knowledge of puppet show.

Allah has no hands or physical attribute like human being.

One of Muffasir commented on Ayat An-Noor (Q24:35)
I quote

Light is something which makes things visible; which is itself manifest and helps make other things manifest. The human mind conceives light in this very sense. Absence of light is termed darkness, invisibility and obscurity. On the other hand, when there is visibility and things become exposed to view, man says there is light. AIlah has been called `Light' in this basic sense, and not in the sense of a beam of light which travels at the speed of 186,000 miles per second and stimulates the optic nerve through the retina. This conception of light has nothing to do with the reality of the meaning for which human mind has coined this word; rather the word light is used for alI those lights which we experience in this physical world All human words used for Allah are used in their basic sense and meaning, and not with reference to their physical connotation. For instance, when, the word "sight" is used with respect to Allah, it dces not mean that AIlah has an eye like men and animals with which He sees. Similarly when we say that AIlah 'hears' or 'grips' or 'grasps', it does not mean that He hears through ears, or grips or grasps with the hand like us. These words are used in a metaphorical sense and only a man of very poor intelligence would have the misconception that hearing or seeing or grasping is not possible except in the limited and specific sense in which we experience it.Similarly it will be shortsightedness to interpret the word 'light' in the sense of physical light rays emanating from a luminous body and affecting the retina. This word is not applicable to AIIah in its limited sense, but in its absolute sense. That is, He alone in this universe is the real and prime "Cause of manifestation", otherwise there is nothing but darkness. here. Everything which gives light and illuminates other things has got its light from Him; it has no light of its own .

So all the physical attribute given to Allah are metaphorical.

[zznoor]

Those who look at Maulana Ali (The Imams) just as another human being because they live as human, are like those who try to look directly at sun and their inner eyes can become blind and will fail to see the Devine.

Maulana Ali and the Imams were and are human being, they were born and died as human. No revelation came to them. They have not authored any divine books accepted by Muslim Ummah like Quran. They made mistakes just like any human being. Overall they did lot of good and tried to guide their followers in right path.
I read somewhere;
Pirs don't fly, it's Murids who imagine Pirs have wings and fly

[tret]

Maulana Ali and the Imams were and are human being, they were born and died as human. No revelation came to them. They have not authored any divine books accepted by Muslim Ummah like Quran. They made mistakes just like any human being. Overall they did lot of good and tried to guide their followers in right path.
I read somewhere;
Pirs don't fly, it's Murids who imagine Pirs have wings and fly

You didn't answer my question about dualism/duality, so what do you think? Look at this picture, and it's my favourite example. If you look closely at the picture, just by slightly changing your preception, you will see a young girl. But, if you change your preception slightly, you can also see an older woman. The point I want to prove is that the picture does not change. It is the same picture. It's the observer's preception that changes. It's the observer who can see two pictures hidden in one. Now, it all depends on what observer wants to see. There could be folks who can not see the second hidden image in this picture at the beginning. But, if she pays closer attention and ready to see the image from another preception, she could find the second image.

So, people who don't believe in Imamat and the importance of Imamat are totally ignoring to see the second Image in the picture. But, if you are ready to change your preception, you will see the second image in the picture and you will be amazed!


Maula Ali and Imams (And Prophets) live in on this earth, and HAS TO live in a human body!! But, body is not what's essential, it's the soul(noor) what's important and eternal! According to us [Ismailies] Imams don't die, they "change cloth" [that's the closest translation I can do]. In other words, the noor of Imam is passed to the next Imam and will be carried forward till day of judgement "Haws-i-kawsar".

True that there's no revelation came to Maula Ali and Imams, but there is no need to. Because as Muslim first of all, we believe that Prophet Mohammad is the last of the Prophets and there will NOT be any other prophets; however, the very most importatn thing that our sunni brothers missed is that during the era of beloved Prophet, Prophetship ended BUT, constitution of Imamat began.

God will never leave us [humans] without a guide. That's why our beloved Prophet promised us and said that He would leave two weighty things behind and whomever hangs on to them, will find salvation. Those two weighty things are 1) Qur'an 2) His Ahl-ul bayte [Zuryah of Imamat].

Imams they don't do just good things; Imams presence in this world are of immense importantce. You see, not only Ismailies benifit from the work of Aga Khan (our beloved MHI), but other people who are qualified regardless of their faith, race, or background.

BTW, for your information, Qur'an is not authored by anyone. Qur'an is revealed to our beloved Prophet. He didn't author it. It's just for you information.

I want to ask you one simple question, and I am sure you are a very intellegent person.
During the time of our beloved Prophet when a person wanted to gave bayhat to become Muslim, they would come to the Prophet and gave their bayhat. Now, in this day and age, lets say a non-muslim wants to become a muslim; who would he gave his bayhat to? [don't tell me to a corner's mawlawi]! Now, one with some intellect might ask "It's not my fault that I was not born during the time of our Prophet to give my bayhat to the Prophet" So, if you think logically with some intellect, then you SHOULD realize that the same HAND must be present today too. It's our responsibility to find that hand. We [ismailies] are already blessed.





http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http ... AQ&dur=434

[shiraz.virani]

Nuseri wrote :

One of the visible strings during Prophet's time was Salman Faras( Jibrael firasta/ Archangel Gabreil.)

Nuseri you haven't answered my question...Here I'm asking this one more time

Salman Farsi was H.Jibraeel[as] ???....Any proof to back this up ???

[shiraz.virani]

Tret wrote :

I want to ask you one simple question, and I am sure you are a very intellegent person.
During the time of our beloved Prophet when a person wanted to gave bayhat to become Muslim, they would come to the Prophet and gave their bayhat. Now, in this day and age, lets say a non-muslim wants to become a muslim; who would he gave his bayhat to? [don't tell me to a corner's mawlawi]! Now, one with some intellect might ask "It's not my fault that I was not born during the time of our Prophet to give my bayhat to the Prophet" So, if you think logically with some intellect, then you SHOULD realize that the same HAND must be present today too. It's our responsibility to find that hand. We [ismailies] are already blessed.

Tret very nicely put. But do you think god is limited or found only in imams[as] ??

How do god communicate with various species ???

Do you think only Ismailis reach jannat and other go to other places ???