Explaination needed of Koran Ayat.

Post by **Admin** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:18 am

star_munir wrote:@Nuseri....one of the name of Allah is Batin which means hidden, unmanifest

And we are all (believers and unbelievers) Allah's spiritual children

Admin

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:20 pm

Every act of human being or a group is because of Satanic virtues imbedded in that group at that time n period.A person a one life

Killings and massacre have taken place in numbers of the faithfuls of many religions during Imams of the past and today.

You are like a dust (a faithless person) under a feet of a faithful.
" IMAAN VAGAR NO MANAS ,DHUR MISAL CHEE.

I'm glad that at least you compared me with the DUST because if I have to say something in your regard I personally wont compare you with anything because it would be a great insult for the stuff that I associate with you

You are trying to challenge each n every of adverse nature/micro event to be intervened by God/Ali.

Not at all !!...As you said earlier that Ali[as] is above allah[swt] so then how is it that ali allah did not come to rescue his momins ??

I'm trying to challenge your theory of ali allah ....that's all !!!

There is 1000% percent action on the EVERY grave sinner upon his death n( before death , if Law punishes them when caught). with their hell term going over 1000 year n beyond maybe.
there are many Ayats in Quran stating that.

You are contradicting yourself here.....In your previous posts you said Heaven and Hell is only our state of mind and now you made a complete U Turn saying those who die will be judged.

There are also sign/warning of God/ALI on Humanity.which is visible caused by nature/illness etc.
It is not very easy to co- relate those Ayats on every micro horrific crime taking place on the earth.

Well I never wanted to use this example in 1st place but your idol worshipping mentality should also have to deal with facts , is it not ??

NAFRAT ALI PEE HAI AAFAT TUMARI.
SHAQUE ALI PEE HAI KASOTI TUMARI.

Nobody hates nor have any doubt whatsoever in his imamat....its the idol worshippers today who have fled leaving their ali allah theory, hiding behind the so called book of usman.

You are living today,if somebody does knows you in person.Answer will be visible on you in few decades from now and definitely before Death. After Death It is 1000% is sure shot

As much hatred as you have in your heart for me right now....that much love I have for you...I do not want any human being to suffer and fall in the pit of hell fire... neither today nor in some decades nor even when they die.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:37 pm

Obviously Nuseiri is completely wrong. He is trying to explain the Light which Ismaili see in Ali to someone who can only see the body.

So all of a sudden allah = ali, the human god is now allah = noor

Nuseiri, in my humble opinion, is taking to the wrong people. How is he going to explain what the Sun that he sees is, to a blind who has never seen the sun nor is interested in learning about it.

Very good, point taken admin bhai...but then can you stare at the sun with your naked eyes ?? ...The answer is obvious NO !!!....In order to see the sun a person has to wear dark glasses....The very same glasses that most of the blind people wear

Obviously the Light of the Imam is as much "UNSEEN" as the Light of Allah.

Light may or may not be unseen but the human god [as per nuseri] is surely visible to all the ismailis ....why din't this god help his sons and daughters is all I'm asking !!!

If nuseri believes him to be true god then he might have the str8 up answer, is it not ???

A person that I know even said none of these Lights exist because he is certain that he can not see that Light and therefore it does not exist icon_wink.gif

lights [plural] or light ??

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:57 pm

Babaji said :

Where in Allah (Ali+Lah) specifically says about himself :

HE IS UNSEEN
HE IS A UNSEEN ENTITY/CREATOR.

Please reply on above related Ayats only.

35:18

Nor can a bearer of burdens bear another's burden. If one heavily laden should call another to (bear) his load, not the least portion of it can be carried (by the other) even though he be nearly related. Thou canst but admonish such as fear their Lord unseen and establish regular Prayer and whoever purifies himself does so for the benefit of his own soul; and the destination (of all) is to Allah.

36:11

Thou canst but admonish: such a one as follows the Message and fears the (Lord) Most Gracious, unseen: give such a one, therefore good tidings, of Forgiveness and a Reward most generous.

50:33

"Who feared (Allah) Most Gracious unseen, and brought a heart turned in devotion (to Him):

21:49

Those who fear their Lord without seeing Him, and they are afraid of the Hour.

67:12

As for those who fear their Lord unseen for them is Forgiveness and a great Reward.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:25 pm

In the same Quran n also n our Dua.
The name of Allah are
Ainullah,which Allah has Eyes.
Yadullah which is Hands of Allah.
Lisanuallah,which Allah has tongue.
Samiullah,which mens Allah has ears
Vajuallah,which mean Allah has FACE.

In what way he can unseen.
the word Baatin comes in Ayat 57:3.
' tHE evident and the Hidden."
The word Baatin is coined after the word Zahir.(evident)
and not a stand alone word by itself
It's great to see this at least they acknowledge that word if not our Baatin concept of r Faith.
Thanks Star Munir

No where Allah call himself unseen In totality.
the word unseen is coined with word believer before it,as they
pray him as unseen to them.
Unseen is attributed to the presumption of the believer,whose prayer he acknowledges and NEVER defining Himself in ANY standalone Ayat as I AM UNSEEN, llke where "He is Living".He has face etc etc.
ALLAH(ALI=LAH) piks n chooses is word very carefully.

It is just not possible that a spark of God/Ali can be a Human being,
but it's source should DEFINETLY be a great majestic Human.

99% of humans population have made Him Unseen,Faceless,Un living ,mythological godhead some even as salty ocean water. against very declaration of himself as ZAHIR, LIVING AUTHORITY, WITH FACE N SENSES in QURAN.

SHARAM KARO SHARAM KARO.

These are very very people who Allah(Ali+Lah) refers to BEING BORN as. blind ,veiled over their eyes n heart.

As both the word unseen n hidden are used in Quran, it has different meaning like
The word ALI is unseen in the name n word Allah
but the word ALI is hidden in the name n word Allah (ALI+Lah).

Reading the Quran without breaking the lines n deep understanding is like being
LAKIR KE FAKIR.
In the words of Imam SMS.
Zahiri are akin to donkeys eating the grass.Baatin enjoys the mind(essence).

MY 1000% conclusion after reading QURAN.

ALLAH=ALI=GOD=HAZAR IMAM.
Come what may.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:03 pm

In the same Quran n also n our Dua.
The name of Allah are
Ainullah,which Allah has Eyes.
Yadullah which is Hands of Allah.
Lisanuallah,which Allah has tongue.
Samiullah,which mens Allah has ears
Vajuallah,which mean Allah has FACE.

And ?? ......

EYES OF ALLAH[swt]

The surah, al mominoon that talks about eyes of allah[swt], have you even read the whole aayat which talks about his eyes ???

“Build the ark under Our Eyes and under Our Revelation.”

can you build an ark under anybodies eyes ??...Oh wait you might, because you know some baba/jogi's who can freeze people, hehehe

In another surah I think its At Tur allah[swt] command's our rasool[saw] to be patient with the ruling of allah[swt] and be assured rasool[saw] is under his[allah's] eyes ....So does that mean rasool[saw] is under the eyes of allah [swt] ???...Or does that mean rasool[saw] is under the PROTECTION of allah[swt]

PAPPU clear hai ???

HANDS OF ALLAH[swt]

You're right allah[swt] talks about hands[plural]....But in the same quran allah[swt] says "theres none like him"....it also says :

[67.1] Blessed is He in Whose hand is the kingdom, and He has power over all things[/b]

Where was your all powerful ali allah [The human god] when his spiritual children died ??...If he is all powerful and all knowing [like you claim him to be] , what was he doing ??

ALLAH[swt] HAS TONGUE TO TALK

Do you know in what AVATAR did allah[swt] communicated with H.Musa[as] ??...When allah[swt] can manifest in the form of the tree and communicate with the person....what makes you think he is stuck in some imam and imam only ???

ALLAH[swt] HAS EAR'S / ALLAH[swt] HAS FACE

My brother allah[swt] does not need all this......It is your imagination that stops you from progressing in your baatini faith. The lord of the lords does not need physical attributes to describe him.

Ismaili's like you puff soo much when it specially comes to the face of allah[swt] and say look this is talking about bappa jo photo...wrong !!!

When the world will come to an end, as promised by allah[swt] there is not even 1 single micro organism on earth that wont taste death...And if we all agree to this then life will perish...and when life will perish [SO WOULD THE LIVING HUMAN GOD]....Can't you use you head and understand in what context allah[swt] has said "Everything will perish, EXCEPT THE FACE OF ALLAH[swt]".....Are you that dumb ???

Surah al-nur has given us a very detailed picture of allah[swt] for it says

" Allah[swt] is the light of heavens[plural] and the earth "

We all know that there are seven heavens or seven stations as per quran...If baba nuseri thinks imam = allah[swt] then what about the seven heavens....Whose managing the other seven stations ?? YOUR COUSINS ???

In what way he can unseen.
the word Baatin comes in Ayat 57:3.
' tHE evident and the Hidden."
The word Baatin is coined after the word Zahir.(evident)
and not a stand alone word by itself
It's great to see this at least they acknowledge that word if not our Baatin concept of r Faith.
Thanks Star Munir

Yes !!!...just like positive/ negative....good/bad.....night/day....we have zahir and baatin......If allah[swt] says he is unseen that does not mean he is hidden in some imam. It simply means that he is above all that we associate him with....Simple !!!

No where Allah call himself unseen In totality.
the word unseen is coined with word believer before it,as they
pray him as unseen to them.
Unseen is attributed to the presumption of the believer,whose prayer he acknowledges and NEVER defining Himself in ANY standalone Ayat as I AM UNSEEN, llke where "He is Living".He has face etc etc.
ALLAH(ALI=LAH) piks n chooses is word very carefully.

I think you answered your own question @ above

It is just not possible that a spark of God/Ali can be a Human being, but it's source should DEFINETLY be a great majestic Human.

So what am I saying from day one ???....What am I saying ?? ....Din't I tell you that our imams[as] are the source/zariya/wasilla through which we can reach our destination/ allah[swt]

99% of humans population have made Him Unseen,Faceless,Un living ,mythological godhead some even as salty ocean water. against very declaration of himself as ZAHIR, LIVING AUTHORITY, WITH FACE N SENSES in QURAN.

Wrong !!!....Abe kaunsi duniya mein geeraha hai tu ???...Majority of human population have created their self made gods and worship him

Hindus = Idols, baba's etc etc
Muslims = Pir Fakir, Dargah's
Christians = Jesus
Ismailis = Ali Allah
Jews = Prophet suleman

But that does not mean all hindus, muslims, christians, ISMAILIS or jews believe in what the majority believes in !!!

SHARAM KARO SHARAM KARO.

Jooth pe jooth aap bol rahe ho aur sharam mein karun ??....Kahan gayi aapki sharam jab mere imam ko allah[swt] bolte fir rahe the ??

These are very very people who Allah(Ali+Lah) refers to BEING BORN as. blind ,veiled over their eyes n heart.

If this makes you happy and you can sleep well at night then so be it !!!

As both the word unseen n hidden are used in Quran, it has different meaning like
The word ALI is unseen in the name n word Allah
but the word ALI is hidden in the name n word Allah (ALI+Lah).

The word ali[as] is unseen in ALLAH[swt] because there is no ali[as] in ALLAH[swt]....BUT, there is ALLAH[swt] in Ali[as], Just like there is allah[swt] in you, me and every single living thing.

Reading the Quran without breaking the lines n deep understanding is like being
LAKIR KE FAKIR.
In the words of Imam SMS.
Zahiri are akin to donkeys eating the grass.Baatin enjoys the mind(essence).

Breaking the lines and attaching mirch masala is the job of nuseri's....We as ismailis believe in holy quran and the guidance given by MHI....FULL STOP !!!

MY 1000% conclusion after reading QURAN.
ALLAH=ALI=GOD=HAZAR IMAM.
Come what may.

39:65

It has been revealed to you just as it was to those before you that if you were to join others in worship along with Allah, then surely all your deeds will be in vain, and you will be among the losers.

so be it !!!

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:19 pm

There is an Ayat which is surah 56,ayat no 85.
"But We are nearer To him than Ye,
And e yet see not."
God is accepting prayers of" those" who presume him "Unseen "ans those
who see him as well
As simple as that.

There are few Ayat of Star and Few on Jinns n Angels.

on stars surah 37 ayat no 6-7
and surah 16 ayat 12 n 16.

It states star are there to protect,guard n guide human against evils.

in an Ayat of Jinns angels.
surah 55 n ayat 15,
in th ose Ayats he has made Jinns out of fire without smoke.
and to guard us.
A rational analysis and from works of Saga n Saints.
That Stars are Hydrogen Mass without smoke,(same definition of Jinns).
From Quran ,both are guarding the human soul.
THERE IS VERY STRONG CO RELATION OF JINNS/ANGEL WITH/AS STARS.
There is study which is called as "Astrology."
I sincerely wish to know from scholars(I do have those books) come forward with info.
Fair info have been written in Ismaili context during FATIMID Era n also by
Dai Nasir Khusrow and Hanry Corbin.
Of relation of human in cosmos n zodiac.

I am sure there is lot on it in Hinduism n named many stars as Devi
Devtas.
I can go deep into it,may not wish to as is for me would trying to know
The Spiritual management of Universe or Occult Science.

This posting may surprise few but it is truth in knowing of micro management ,rank n files of human souls.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:06 pm

YA ALI TO REHEM KAR,YA MOULA TU FAZAL KAR.

It was not necessary to post the incident Of Karachi in this topic and make it look like a Devil openly challenging God.
In any debates one must question or challenge other co debaters in fair n healthy ambiance.
NEVER TO CHALLENGE GOD.CONSEQUENCES CAN B FAR REACHING THAT ONE MAY NOT KNOW.

My observation of the incident ,and I will not debate further on it.

1 Birth n death is part n parcel of human life,But death thru violence is horrific. I am sure during these time few births may also have taken place in Faithful n Happy Ismaili families.It evens out for the better.I understand that growth rate is fair of our community.

2.I read about sectarian violence in Pakistan going on from decades.
in recent time In spite of Shia Mosques being well guarded/fortified in frontier areas, the average death per incident is over 20 peoples.
The sinners who attacked 2 jamat khanas may have had target to kill not less
than 25 people at each place n total of 50.
THEY WERE 96% FAILURE and just 4%( only 2 deaths) successful going form their past track record.
It is true that angels in numbers act at those very time .the result
n stats shows we being protected no less than 96% by ALI thru angels even in dangerous areas n zones
3.This would lead to greater unity in Jamaat which more security n vigilance in n around Jamat khana areas.I t might be blessing in disguise for those
who may speed up their overseas migration process for the better.
4.For the sinners.If you have read criminal psychology ,
Any killer of a human being is deprived of Natural sleep n do get nightmares.This over a period of time get dark eye rings n reddish eyes.
This is the first sign/stamp on their Faces an Invitation with registration number to HELL.
Law can catch up with them n punish them or a revengeful mob.
Sooner r later death will catch up n so will b the wrath of Allah(Ali+Lah) on them .

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:47 am

nuseri wrote: in an Ayat of Jinns angels.
surah 55 n ayat 15,
in th ose Ayats he has made Jinns out of fire without smoke.
and to guard us.

i dont see anything about jinns being guarding us in 055:015.

maybe it was a typo error.

can you please post the correct verses

055:013 O which of your Lord's bounties will you and you deny?
055:014 He created man of a clay like the potter's,
055:015 and He created the jinn of a smokeless fire.
055:016 Of which of your Lord's bounties will you and you deny?
055:017 Lord of the Two Easts, Lord of the Two Wests,

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:15 am

to 2782:
Ya ali madad.
I do not have the copy of Quran in hand as I am posting from my office.

there are collective of Ayats on Jinns ,Angels n Stars which are many.

the Ayat has only one line n also it would be "guarding' in other Ayats of jinn n angels.
I am trying to understand the co relations n there are many assumed
n proven works of relating the soul to stars,
While I am relating the soul to God and Jinns n Angel to celestial body,which has been explained by Sufi n Sagas of the past.
I try to make a sense of the lines picked from few of the Ayats n not making a point of word by word as printed by the translator.
You are a sharp proof reader.Keep it up.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:00 pm

Baba Nuseri,

The question remains the same for you, If ali[as] is truly allah[swt] as per you then what was he doing ??

All you're doing is trying to divert the topic from ali allah to A MATH PROBLEM @ above....2 lives lost, but many other born on that day in our community, hence problem solved and ali is still allah[swt], what nonsense !!!

Even in our holy salwaat we call on allah[swt] to shower his blessings on rasool[saw] and his progeny [pure imams[as]]...Can't you understand ??

It was not necessary to post the incident Of Karachi in this topic and make it look like a Devil openly challenging God.
In any debates one must question or challenge other co debaters in fair n healthy ambiance.
NEVER TO CHALLENGE GOD.CONSEQUENCES CAN B FAR REACHING THAT ONE MAY NOT KNOW.

You're the one who is challenging allah[swt] by creating a demi god = competition

Ali[as] is ali[as] and allah[swt] is allah[swt]

No single imam[as] can take or give you life, they are not magicians like you claim them to be, they're guides and guides only. Please don't degrade them with your idiotic comments. Follow them and not your stupid theories.

I have always dealt with you patiently..it's you who always try to hide behind something or the other. I do not claim to be a saint or baba like you who can freeze or make people flee just by looking at them [stories that you make up]...I know I'm full of sins [top to battom] but I don't go places saying haq ali ali, bhaag ali ali...Or claim myself to be higher than other muslims....Or even worst !! claim ali to be allah[swt] without even backing my idiotic theory.

GROW UP !!!

As I said last time, You are not god loving person....you're god fearing person.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:52 pm

There is a posting on Salvat.
Please BARK there if Admin permits.

AB TO ALI AUR ALI SIRF ALI ,ALI ALI

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:58 pm

There is a posting on Salvat.
Please BARK there if Admin permits.

AB TO ALI AUR ALI SIRF ALI ,ALI ALI

Truth is bitter, but it's results is sweet
Falsehood appears to be sweet but it is poisonous in its effects

Imam Ali[as]

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:27 pm

To AgaKhani:
Ya Ali Madad.

There is simple question for you n the answer is needed in just one word.
Please no explanation/sermon needed on light,wind energy,etc etc.
IS ALLAH ......?
a) SEEN OR b) UNSEEN.
Your answer can be with one of 'Those' or one of 'Us'.

Your answer is the sum of your years of IIM n studying.

There is Farman of MHI, that 'Quran ganoo varsh no abhyas maangi rahi chee.'

Your answer is your Faith/Imaan.

ANSWER IN ONE WORD ONLY.
I will not review or debate on your answer.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:39 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:Baba Nuseri, I asked you one simple question and instead of answering it...You seem to be running and trying to hide behind holy aayats of holy quran which is of no regard for you.

I wonder why you're running from my straight forward question ??....If Ali[as] is allah AS PER YOU, then what was Ali[as] doing when his own spiritual children were killed in his very own house [jamatkhana] and that to when they [spiritual children] were praying ???

NUSERI said :

There Is a Farman of Imam SMS. that Zahiri's who are non Ismailis will bray n bark at our Baatin concept of our Faith.There may be some informed non Ismailis disliker of Imams masking as an Ismaili on the net.SO BE IT.
The people who died in his house were baatini right ??
They understood the whole concept of ali allah right ??
They prayed to him with all devotion in JK right ??

In short they came to the jamat khana to seek peace, right ??? ...What happened to peace if there is any in the house of god [as per you]??

People who prayed to him for peace were delivered in pieces , why nuseri ??.....What was the fault of that innocent child and his mother who died ??....Is your concept of ali allah really makes ali = allah ?? or Is it something that idol worshippers like you have made him into one ??

My present imam never ever claimed divinity...it is people like you who associate him with allah[swt]

We, Ahlul Bayt (chosen descendants of the Holy Prophet), hold such central and balancing position in religion that those who are deficient in understanding and acting upon its principles, will have to come to us for reformation, and those who are overdoing it have got to learn moderation from us.

Imam Ali[as]

shiraz bhai u said if ALI is ALLAH so y he do nothing when his childrens killed in JK...

i want to tell u one thing ALI is not only the ALLAH of ismaili he(ALI) is thy GOD of 18 thousand universe so not only in JK his children killed in utterakhand disaster, israel and phalestine war, syrian war etc and HE(ALI) do nothing....many disbelivers say strange but belivers say HE(ALI) knows better.......not only in JK of karimabad and metroville but his murids also killed in karbala, and by chenghes and halaku khan also in mahabharat and in many events.......i m live in karimabad and after attack on jk i never listen frm anybody that y murids killed in JK...some said HE(ALI) knows better and some said HE(ALI) taking our examination...

YA ALI MADAD

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:27 pm

I want to tell u one thing ALI is not only the ALLAH of ismaili he(ALI) is thy GOD of 18 thousand universe so not only in JK his children killed in utterakhand disaster, israel and phalestine war, syrian war etc and HE(ALI) do nothing....many disbelivers say strange but belivers say HE(ALI) knows better.......not only in JK of karimabad and metroville but his murids also killed in karbala, and by chenghes and halaku khan also in mahabharat and in many events.......i m live in karimabad and after attack on jk i never listen frm anybody that y murids killed in JK...some said HE(ALI) knows better and some said HE(ALI) taking our examination...icon_smile.gif

YA ALI MADAD

Mawla Ali Madad Brother ismaili

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it....Just like our way of writing on this forum is not the same, in the same way there can be difference in opinions and theres nothing wrong with that.

The problem is not ali[as] = allah[swt]or ali[as] is vicar of allah[swt]....The problem is how we back it up...If theres no supportive document to claim what we are saying then how are we different than those idol worshippers who talk/worship to idols ??

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:27 pm

Still awaiting one alphabet answer from Agakhani.It should not take more than few seconds for the simple answer.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:12 pm

Is Hazarat Ali Allah or not?

The answer is 'yes' for me, for Nuseri and for many other Ismailis who has faith on him and believe him as a Allah.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:35 pm

shiraz bhai u said if ALI is ALLAH so y he do nothing when his childrens killed in JK...

Hey! did Shiraz asked this? I must be missed his post then, by the way he needs to ask me this question but "chalo der se Aaye lekin durast aaaye" Now it is my resposiblility to give him an answer but he has to give me answer of my following question first and then after I will give him my answer i.e. why Hazarat Ali (s.a.) was doing when his 2 murids were killed in JK?

Question for Shiraz:-

What the heck Allah ( called him self as "Rahmatul Aalmin" 800+ times in Quran) is doing when dozens of Muslims brothers are get killed in Shia and Sunny mosque every other day? and what was he doing during the time of Hajj when thousand Muslims were killed? for your quick reference; on July 2, 1990 : A stampede inside a pedestrian tunnel (Al-Ma'aisim tunnel) leading out from Mecca towards Mina, Saudi Arabia and the Plains of Arafat led to the deaths of 1,426 pilgrims. what was the Rahmatul Aalmin Almighty Allah was doing that time? What was he doing when Sadam Hussain killed thousand and thousan innocents Iraqi?
"Bolti bandh kar di ne Bhaijan'i.[/b]

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:20 pm

The question was very different.I will not debate on your answer.

To all participants

1.The copy of Quran I am reading may not be having proper Index.
If a reader can please inform me only the Surah:Ayats numbers,Where the word 'Blind' is used".

2.Is there any Ayats in which Allah DIRECTLY defines himself as 'formless' using that word or akin to it?
(please no relational views,assumptions of light,water,wind being formless,etc etc)

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:58 am

nuseri wrote:The question was very different.I will not debate on your answer.

To all participants

1.The copy of Quran I am reading may not be having proper Index.
If a reader can please inform me only the Surah:Ayats numbers,Where the word 'Blind' is used".

2.Is there any Ayats in which Allah DIRECTLY defines himself as 'formless' using that word or akin to it?
(please no relational views,assumptions of light,water,wind being formless,etc etc)

002:014 When they meet those who believe, they say, 'We believe'; but when they go privily to their Satans, they say, 'We are with you; we were only mocking.'
002:015 God shall mock them, and shall lead them on blindly wandering in their insolence.
002:016 Those are they that have bought error at the price of guidance, and their commerce has not profited them, and they are not right-guided.
002:017 The likeness of them is as the likeness of a man who kindled a fire, and when it lit all about him God took away their light, and left them in darkness unseeing
002:018 deaf, dumb, blind -- so they shall not return;

002:170 And when it is said to them, 'Follow what God has sent down,' they say, 'No; but we will follow such things as we found our fathers doing.' What? And if their fathers had no understanding of anything, and if they were not guided?
002:171 The likeness of those who disbelieve is as the likeness of one who shouts to that which hears nothing, save a call and a cry; deaf, dumb, blind -- they do not understand.

003:045 When the angels said, 'Mary, God gives thee good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary; high honoured shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to God.
003:046 He shall speak to men in the cradle, and of age, and righteous he shall be.'
003:047 'Lord,' said Mary, 'how shall I have a son seeing no mortal has touched me?' 'Even so,' God said, 'God creates what He will. When He decrees a thing He does but say to it "Be," and it is.
003:048 And He will teach him the Book, the Wisdom, the Torah, the Gospel,
003:049 to be a Messenger to the Children of Israel saying, "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I will create for you out of clay as the likeness of a bird; then I will breathe into it, and it will be a bird, by the leave of God. I will also heal the blind and the leper, and bring to life the dead, by the leave of God. I will inform you too of what things you eat, and what you treasure up in your houses. Surely in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:38 pm

27826:Ya Ali madad
Thanks,I just wanted the numbers,you gave it with the wordings.I have also found one more Ayat,which I have earmarked in the book.

To AgaKhani:Ya Ali madad
The whole forum is waiting for an one alphabet answer,to the precise question asked.Just choose between A or B.it's one second work for u.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:56 am

shiraz.virani wrote:
I want to tell u one thing ALI is not only the ALLAH of ismaili he(ALI) is thy GOD of 18 thousand universe so not only in JK his children killed in utterakhand disaster, israel and phalestine war, syrian war etc and HE(ALI) do nothing....many disbelivers say strange but belivers say HE(ALI) knows better.......not only in JK of karimabad and metroville but his murids also killed in karbala, and by chenghes and halaku khan also in mahabharat and in many events.......i m live in karimabad and after attack on jk i never listen frm anybody that y murids killed in JK...some said HE(ALI) knows better and some said HE(ALI) taking our examination...icon_smile.gif

YA ALI MADAD
Mawla Ali Madad Brother ismaili

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it....Just like our way of writing on this forum is not the same, in the same way there can be difference in opinions and theres nothing wrong with that.

The problem is not ali[as] = allah[swt]or ali[as] is vicar of allah[swt]....The problem is how we back it up...If theres no supportive document to claim what we are saying then how are we different than those idol worshippers who talk/worship to idols ??

i m recently give u KIM just read it and u get all answers its indeed big supportive document....

what u think we are not idol worshipers sorry to say but most of ismailis are idol worshiper who think that BODY WHOSE NAME IS KARIM is our IMAM...i m not said that body is ALLAH but NOOR inside that body is ALLAH....

shiraz bhai plzz give me thy ans of simple quest..

What u think body is Imam or Noor inside body is Imam..??

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:30 pm

Ismaili 103

shiraz bhai plzz give me thy ans of simple quest..

What u think body is Imam or Noor inside body is Imam..??

Yaa Ali madad once again

The body of our imam is in no way different that our body....He'z a mortal and so are we...It's the soul that never dies.

But I agree with you in the sense that Imam is vested with NOOR or else how in the world can he be different than us sppritually ?? is it not ??

As I said earlier in one my posts ....Imamat as we know of is the highest office/status ever know to mankind.

In the very same quran allah[swt] made him dearest friend H.Ibrahim[as] as an Imam of mankind....So yes even our imam e zaman is not the imam of just ismailis but hez the imam e zaman [manifest proof of allah[swt]] to whom we should all obey.

Inshort, Imams[as] are wayyyyyyyyyyyy higher than all of us and I agree with you on this. That's the reason why they are chosen to guide us !!!

But as you rightly said we got few ismailis [specially on this forum] who worship/treat our imam like that of a cow [you see how people in india[hindus] bow their heads in front of a cow]...And these are the people whom Im strictly against and therez a reason behind that....When you ask them to prove ali=allah[swt] all you hear from them is haq ali ali, dhoom dhadaaka ali ali..and when they fail miserably what they do is start blaming shia's/sunni's etc etc....Do you think if I answer in the same fashion to the question that you just asked, would you be satisfied ?? NO !!!....and thats the point Im trying to make here.

Just by calling ourselves baatini do we get a free pass to degrade other sects of islam ???..Do you think that's justified ??

If I come to you and say ali = allah[swt] and I know few person's who can freeze people just by looking in their eyes, what would you think of me bhai ???...Is this how we gonna justify our baatini faith ???

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:45 pm

agakhani bhai said :

Hey! did Shiraz asked this? I must be missed his post then, by the way he needs to ask me this question but "chalo der se Aaye lekin durast aaaye" Now it is my resposiblility to give him an answer but he has to give me answer of my following question first and then after I will give him my answer i.e. why Hazarat Ali (s.a.) was doing when his 2 murids were killed in JK?

First of all, thank you for showing respect to our beloved imam ali[as]...All I see on this forum is ali. There some who call him allah[swt] but in no way show any kind of respect to our imams[as]...So thank you for using the term "Hazrat Ali followed by [s.a]" ...Even hazar imam refers our 1st imam as "imam ali[as] or hazrat ali[as]"

What the heck Allah ( called him self as "Rahmatul Aalmin" 800+ times in Quran) is doing when dozens of Muslims brothers are get killed in Shia and Sunny mosque every other day? and what was he doing during the time of Hajj when thousand Muslims were killed? for your quick reference; on July 2, 1990 : A stampede inside a pedestrian tunnel (Al-Ma'aisim tunnel) leading out from Mecca towards Mina, Saudi Arabia and the Plains of Arafat led to the deaths of 1,426 pilgrims. what was the Rahmatul Aalmin Almighty Allah was doing that time? What was he doing when Sadam Hussain killed thousand and thousan innocents Iraqi?

Agakhani bhai once again you did not read the whole conversation between babaji and myself.

I said "chalo muslims are quacks or shariatis who dont even know who or how allah[swt] looks like, but what about some ismailis who think MHI = Allah[swt] ??...Do they think he is living god ?? Yes !!!....So what was living mortal god doing at that time ?? We know the sunni ideology that the believing sunni muslim will get to see allah[swt] after his death but some ismailis think MHI = Allah[swt] who is present and living , right ??...All other 71 sects believe that after death the soul will be judged by allah[swt] according to their deeds, right ??...What about some ismailis who have living god[as per them] who can forgive their sins, or imams [who have heaven and hell in their hands] ??? What do you think ??

@ above is what I asked babaji, looks like you missed it, please read it and then if you still have any questions ask me.

16:61

And if Allah were to seize mankind for their wrong-doing, He would not leave on it (the earth) a single moving (living) creature, but He postpones them for an appointed term and when their term comes, neither can they delay nor can they advance it an hour (or a moment).

And one more thing agakhani bhai....you said in your reply to nuseri that ali[as]=allah[swt]...but in another topic of discussion you said and I quote:

Allah does not have any shape nor any gender,Allah is a light, energy it is here it is in Pakistan , you can name any name you like but so far nobody has claimed he/she has seen Allah.

So if nobody has ever seen or claimed he/she has seen allah[swt], how are you so sure that ali[as] = allah[swt]

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:03 am

shiraz.virani wrote:Ismaili 103

shiraz bhai plzz give me thy ans of simple quest..

What u think body is Imam or Noor inside body is Imam..??
Yaa Ali madad once again

The body of our imam is in no way different that our body....He'z a mortal and so are we...It's the soul that never dies.

But I agree with you in the sense that Imam is vested with NOOR or else how in the world can he be different than us sppritually ?? is it not ??

As I said earlier in one my posts ....Imamat as we know of is the highest office/status ever know to mankind.

In the very same quran allah[swt] made him dearest friend H.Ibrahim[as] as an Imam of mankind....So yes even our imam e zaman is not the imam of just ismailis but hez the imam e zaman [manifest proof of allah[swt]] to whom we should all obey.

ya ali madad

shiraz bhai u give thy answer of the question ALI ALLAH..

hazrat ibrahim is prophet and ALLAH become happy wib H.ibrahim thats why ALLAH uplift thy DARJAHH of H.ibrahim....so IMAM has higher rank than prophet so thy point is made there is that ..

first its IMAM
second its prophet

but..!!

Quran said that first its ALLAH and second PROPHET so where is IMAM.??
is IMAM is in thy place of 1.5 or 1.25 or else....

think about it my bro...

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:09 am

shiraz bhai yes heaven and hell is in the hand of Imam...

I think agakhani bhai know that firman of Imam sultan mohd shah..i dont know exact words but i know what imam said

"aap ko jannat or dozakh ki fikar karne ki zarurat nai ha ..jannat or dozakh hamare haath ma hai"

agakhani bhai if u know that firman plzz place it there...?)

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:59 am

Admin:Ya Ali Madad.
I had posted a blog in the morning after that sermon of Virani n before one of Ismaili 103.
It is not fair to remove that posting.Any reasons for that ?.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:56 am

Ismaili103

Mawla Ali Madad.

Brother ismaili we recite our holy dua 3 times a day and you asked me where is imam in quran, correct ??

In our dua brother ismaili...espically 2nd part of our holy dua we say/pray

"Obey allah[swt], Obey the messenger of allah[swt]....and those VESTED WITH AUTHORITY"

who are those vested with authority ismaili ??

It is none other that Imam ali[as] and his progeny =MHI

And what is interesting is in that verse "obey messenger and those vested with authority are in the same sentence"....which means Imams[as] and prophets[as] are from the very same source[LIGHT]

I hope I answered your question in plain and simple terms

Yaa Ali Madad

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:00 pm

shiraz bhai yes heaven and hell is in the hand of Imam...icon_smile.gif

I think agakhani bhai know that firman of Imam sultan mohd shah..i dont know exact words but i know what imam said

"aap ko jannat or dozakh ki fikar karne ki zarurat nai ha ..jannat or dozakh hamare haath ma hai"

agakhani bhai if u know that firman plzz place it there...?)

Ofcourse its in the hands of Imam E Zaman brother ismaili...because if you read quran, allah[swt] says there are some imams who will take their followers in hell [ex- pharaoh, false gods etc etc]....but at the same time there are those who are appointed by allah[swt] who guide people on str8 path [ex: MHI]

clear hai??