Explaination needed of Koran Ayat.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:58 pm

Ya Ali Madad:
As Koran is in Classical Arabic vocabulary.
I need explanation from it readers/knowers. there are over 50 verses or Ayats ,I wish to know more about. the first one rather scary one is:

The Koran copy I have is an English translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

It is from Sura 4 Al Nisa and verse/ayat no is 56.It is on page 202.

''Those who reject Our signs,We shall soon Cast into the Fire;
As often as thier skins are roasted through,We shall change for fresh skins, That they may taste the penalty:for Allah is Exalted in Power,Wise.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:39 am

4:56
Here are some Sunni (you call them Shariati) Tafseers

You need to study few Ayas before and few Ayas after to get real meaning.

Tafseer Ibn Katheer
/abdurrahman.org/qurantafseer/ibnkathir/
Go to index page and click
" The Envy and miserly conduct of the Jews "
Explanation begins at the bottom of page

Asad translation and comments
You will find it here
/www.islamicity.com/quransearch/
Do verse search

Maudidi translation and comments you will find it here
http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php

Multilingual Quran translation, comments and tafseer you will find it here, look for Shakir translation (Shia) and comments of Ali/Pooya
/quran.al-islam.org/

Word by word translation of Quran, you will find it here
.allahsquran.com/learn/#s4d7q1t0p1

Brother these are all Shariati material, it is like ancient candle light (as per your belief). For solar power explanation you must search Ginan (Ismail Tafseer of Quran par excellence), or approach Ismail scholar and ultimately MHI (Bolta Quran).

Post by **Admin** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:06 am

Agreed. In fact it is said that the Quran was sent to the habitants of Arabia. It was sent to explain according to the ability to understand complex situations in simple terms , according to the understanding of "that" time in a society that was very different of "this" time.

The Prophet [PBUH] said that you have to live according to your time, he said be Ibn-ul Waqht, the Children of your Time.

And who other than the "Imam of the Time" can guide the" Children of the Time"?

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:16 am

To zznoor:

Thanks for your posting.there are also explanation in the copy I have.
I really do not wish to see any of those sites/links suggested.

I simply wish to know from scholars/copy n pasters/suggesters of links hyperactive on the forum an explanation in their own or borrowed/referred words in just few lines.

Please keep a reply with anybody of a few line matter to few line return answers, not always a lengthy,boring n useless copy paste of the quacks long dead.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:45 am

nuseri wrote:To zznoor:

Thanks for your posting.there are also explanation in the copy I have.
I really do not wish to see any of those sites/links suggested.

I simply wish to know from scholars/copy n pasters/suggesters of links hyperactive on the forum an explanation in their own or borrowed/referred words in just few lines.

Please keep a reply with anybody of a few line matter to few line return answers, not always a lengthy,boring n useless copy paste of the quacks long dead.

Brother
AS
You are what we call "Ghamandi " of high order.
I gave you links. To study or not is your businress.
You can " Lead horse to water but cannot make him drink"

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:04 am

nuseri wrote:To zznoor:
Please keep a reply with anybody of a few line matter to few line return answers, not always a lengthy,boring n useless copy paste of the the quakes long gone

Are you Admin?
You must be humble and not call or insult scholars who spend life time studying Quran and Ahadith.
Take care

Post by **Admin** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:54 pm

ZZNOOR I do not want to see here an avalanche of personal replies to personal messages. All are welcome to post knowledge without pointing to personal issues. This is valid for all but I am pointing zznoor because basically the 3 last messages are redundant and could have been contained in one. Nuseiri is not the Admin here. he is a user like you are and he is posting here in the same manner you are posting here.

What he pointed is right, we prefer not to have links to outer web sites. We do not need to redirect our readers to what ends up been sometime real "crap". So we reserve the right to remove those links and if if links are removed, it is because of a general policy that applies to all, not only to you.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:29 am

I simply wish to know from scholars/copy n pasters/suggesters of links hyperactive on the forum an explanation in their own or borrowed/referred words in just few lines.

Please keep a reply with anybody of a few line matter to few line return answers, not always a lengthy,boring n useless copy paste of the quacks long dead.

Few lines ???

Baba Nuseri, why dont you go ask Bolta Quran [as per you] to tell you the exact hidden [batini] meaning behind those verse and this Im saying because for you quran is nothing more than a classical arabic vocabulary...Why are you wasting your time in reading something that holds no value for you ??? ...Why are you wasting you time in reading something that was compiled by shariatis ??

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:45 pm

'YOU ARE THE FACE OF QURAN.....MY LORD ALI'.

An extract from a Qasida composed by Dai Nasir Khusrow.

I am trying to Interpret in my own understanding.

It is based on my absolute irrevocable conviction of GOD is living on Earth.Heaven and Hell is here,Our daily life is Roz ki Qayamat.The soul of person is on a very very long haul on this earth.

In this ayat.4:56

The word roasted of their Skin in Fire is said.
what is the end colour when anything is extremely roasted?It is BLACK.
and a line says'We shall change them for fresh skins,'
this clearly indicates living people with Blacks skin over thier body.
today if we see and observe the the sub sahara region of Africa,they are almost look like residents of Hell.
This area is subject to hostile climate with extreme poverty,hunger, misery and death looming over them.THEY ARE ALL BLACK.
What is the reason for this? Allah has said this in Quran,they may be totally faithless persons or cursed souls.
Science is also catching with mystery of the Creator,with DNA research n stem cell amazing result will come out in future,it is matter of time.
A Sufi does not memorize the Quran nor tries to understand it,He rather fully absorbs it.

e.g for Baatin:

A learned person who tries to explain to a ignorant about water.
as ignorant is adamant about the water he see daily(he is not wrong)
He is just just refusing to accept that is H20,that is 2 parts of hydrogen and one part oxygen.,which the learned person cannot show it physically( the TRUE composition of water) to the ignorant.

In the same way the Baatin maina(esoteric) is meta physical expression,It is very difficult for the ignorant to accept it.

People blessed at Haqiqat (level 3) can/may see the truth in the Maina co-relating with Farmans,Qasida and Ginans, (all the ( solar) Marfati material blessed with them)

The whole of Quran has Baatin maina(Esoteric implications) from the word 'GO'.

To ZZnoor: Yyou corrected the word quack to the word quakes.

The word quakes is mainly coined with the word Earthquakes which implies devastation and Disaster.

Thank very much,I openly and bluntly used that word you have used it in refined and diplomatic way.

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:27 am

nuseri wrote: today if we see and observe the the sub sahara region of Africa,they are almost look like residents of Hell.
This area is subject to hostile climate with extreme poverty,hunger, misery and death looming over them.THEY ARE ALL BLACK.
What is the reason for this? Allah has said this in Quran,they may be totally faithless persons or cursed souls.

Can you please quote the verse from the Quran for the above about the reason for being black is because Allah has said this in Quran, they may be totally faithless persons or cursed souls?

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:40 am

a_27826 wrote:
nuseri wrote: today if we see and observe the the sub sahara region of Africa,they are almost look like residents of Hell.
This area is subject to hostile climate with extreme poverty,hunger, misery and death looming over them.THEY ARE ALL BLACK.
What is the reason for this? Allah has said this in Quran,they may be totally faithless persons or cursed souls.
This statement is bordering to racist.
People's skin is black because they are born into harsh African Enviornment.
And It is beauty of Allah's 'Kudrat'

One should not try to find different meaning of every individual Aya. To understand Quran one must look at few Ayas before and few Ayas after to find real meaning.

I have already pointed out that this Aya was referring to Jews.

Please study 3:07. It makes clear that majority of Ayas in Quran are clear and cannot have another meaning. As per example Fasting in Ramadan.
Those who look for Batin meaning of every Aya have not understood real meaning of 3:07.&

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:13 am

to zznoor:
real meanings are indeed batini meanings..

by thy flash of an mango tree never grew.but thy big seed inside thy mango which has no use becuz it is so bitter,undigestable and very hard and people say it's use less and threw it is thy main source of grow another tree which gives us thousands of new fruit....

a question for ::
Q)near u what is "ROZA"

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:48 pm

In this ayat.4:56
The word roasted of their Skin in Fire is said.
what is the end colour when anything is extremely roasted?It is BLACK.
and a line says'We shall change them for fresh skins,'
this clearly indicates living people with Blacks skin over thier body.
today if we see and observe the the sub sahara region of Africa,they are almost look like residents of Hell.
This area is subject to hostile climate with extreme poverty,hunger, misery and death looming over them.THEY ARE ALL BLACK.
What is the reason for this? Allah has said this in Quran,they may be totally faithless persons or cursed souls.
Science is also catching with mystery of the Creator,with DNA research n stem cell amazing result will come out in future,it is matter of time.
A Sufi does not memorize the Quran nor tries to understand it,He rather fully absorbs it.

What a NUTJOB !!!
Just because a person is of black race does that mean he is going to hell ?? ...So basically all the white folks are going to heaven as per your arguement.

Who race was the slave of rasool[saw] ?? What was the emblem of MHI during his golden jubilee ??

49:13 O mankind! Lo! We have created you from male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware.

And the reason why africa is sooo hot and dry is because it lies along the equator and since the earth is spherical and slightly tilted [while orbiting] the equator is closer to the sun..So basically all the countries in african continent that lies along the equator you gonna see that the people living there would be dark complexioned.

4:1 O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord Who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;― fear Allah, through Whom ye demand your mutual (rights) and (reverence) the wombs (that bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.

People blessed at Haqiqat (level 3) can/may see the truth in the Maina co-relating with Farmans,Qasida and Ginans, (all the ( solar) Marfati material blessed with them)

Yeah right ....infact I would say there is not even a single haqiqati momin like you on this planet my dear friend.....The interpretation that you gave @ above proves that you're the baap of haqiqati's

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:09 pm

To Admin: Ya Ali Madad.

I may wish to go on other many more verses shortly

Should I continue on this heading or open a new topic ?

There is a Farman of Imam SMS.Please if any Haqiqati Momim can put it up here with the date.

It say's about our Sufi traditions and disregard those Zahiris who are 'Braying' and 'Barking' at us.

AND I AM EXACTLY GOING TO DO THAT

Post by **Admin** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:03 pm

posting should always be under appropriate heading. First verify if the heading already exist by doing a search of the Forum

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:08 pm

nuseri wrote:To Admin: Ya Ali Madad.

I may wish to go on other many more verses shortly

Even I wish you should go on with extraordinary interpretations of verses.

But before that, can you please give the verse about your statement “Africa is subject to hostile climate with extreme poverty, hunger, misery and death looming over them.THEY ARE ALL BLACK.
What is the reason for this? Allah has said this in Quran; they may be totally faithless persons or cursed souls.”

BTW, What about Bilal?, a black skin, the companion of Prophet Muhammad.

Do you think Bilal was a bad person in his previous life hence was reincarnated to a black skin?

Do you think Bilal was reincarnated as white person after his death?

What about me? I am Indian, a brown skin. Do you think that I was not so good nor not so bad person in my previous life?

Post by **Admin** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:13 pm

I was told God left some people uncooked and some people got little burned but some were left in the oven just the right time so black are trying to become brown and whites are trying to become browm

So please do not worry, if you are brown, it just mean the oven had the proper temperature

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:18 pm

The colour of the skin n place of birth DOES play a role, but the soul of the person has the fullest opportunity to advance many folds to next phase.
If you observe the contentment of the people,glow of light on their faces and the beauty of nature some areas of the world enjoy and compare it with the plight of sub Sahara Africa people.A wise person will admit that GOD definitely has a hand in it.
Somebody wisely said 'Khudha(ALI) ki kudrat, i would add to it Khudha(ALI) ke sochi samajhi rann nithi".His master plan.

Now to the Farman of Imam SMS said in Zanzibar on 30-7-1899.referred from Kalam Imam e Mubin. Farman no 38.Page 95.
to
" TAME GINAN SIKHO ANE EK BIJHA NE SHIKAWO.TAME GINAN PADO.TENA ARTH SAMAJSHO TO FAYDO THASE.JE ARTH NAHI SAMJHO TO KAI FAYDO NATHI.GINAN VACHVA ANE ARTH NAHI SAMAJVU,YE TO GHADERA KUTRA BOKHYA CHE TE PRAMANE THAYU.MATE TAME GINAN VACHO ANE TENA BEDH (INNER SECRETS/BAATIN) SAMJHO.

This also stand true for understanding of all religious and holy books.

Allah in many many verses has implicated what is in store forthe non believers,infidels and mischief makers.

Please please close the store of candle hawking/selling,A humble request.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:58 am

Allah in many many verses has implicated what is in store forthe non believers,infidels and mischief makers.

is it Allah or Ali?
Please please close the store of candle hawking/selling,A humble request.

this is all Batini
Can you post Zahiri?

Post by **Admin** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:32 am

Zahiri says man and women are different. Batini says there is no male soul and femalle soul, a soul is a soul!

Ismailis recognise the Batin.

The sad situation of abuse of women in many Muslim family arise from the fact that people look at the zahiri but do not recognise the batini equality of man and women. This is valid in all aspect of life, not only in relation to man and woman.

Our Imam said Zahir is Zahir and Batin is Batin. Tmeet, there is no meeting point between Shariat and Haqiqat. Those who are trapped into zahir and shariat and do not recognise batin and haqiat are flotters in an ocean, they go wherever the water takes them.

We have a Captain in our boat, we call Him our "Imam e Zaman", we know he will make us reach the other side safetly.

These are the realities of the Ismaili faith that you have to understand else all the Ismaili postings will look like chinese language to you.

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:44 am

Admin wrote:Zahiri says man and women are different. Batini says there is no male soul and femalle soul, a soul is a soul!

Ismailis recognise the Batin.

The sad situation of abuse of women in many Muslim family arise from the fact that people look at the zahiri but do not recognise the batini equality of man and women. This is valid in all aspect of life, not only in relation to man and woman.

Our Imam said Zahir is Zahir and Batin is Batin. Tmeet, there is no meeting point between Shariat and Haqiqat. Those who are trapped into zahir and shariat and do not recognise batin and haqiat are flotters in an ocean, they go wherever the water takes them.

We have a Captain in our boat, we call Him our "Imam e Zaman", we know he will make us reach the other side safetly.

These are the realities of the Ismaili faith that you have to understand else all the Ismaili postings will look like chinese language to you.

i wish the forum had a button like "I like it" with an image of "thumbs up" or something like that so that readers can appreciate the postings which are appreciable.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:18 pm

I was told God left some people uncooked and some people got little burned but some were left in the oven just the right time so black are trying to become brown and whites are trying to become browm

So please do not worry, if you are brown, it just mean the oven had the proper temperature

Bahahahahahahhahaah

.....Next time I need a stress relief, I would get some laughter therapy from admin.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:23 pm

The sad situation of abuse of women in many Muslim family arise from the fact that people look at the zahiri but do not recognise the batini equality of man and women. This is valid in all aspect of life, not only in relation to man and woman.

Why single out Muslims. Abuse happens in all cultures and in all religions

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:52 am

To zznoor:
for me ALI = ALLAH =HAZAR IMAM = KHUDA.

I used the word Allah as that word is mentioned in Quran.

A Zahiri believer in GOD say' Yeh Kudrat hai'.

An educated rationalist will say it is geography and genetics.

A Sufi will try to ask 'yeh ku hai aur kaiku hai? How n why, will b seeking answer from the same line.

What is written is there,but what is to b understood from the same line is also indicated/hidden there.That is Sufism (Baatin) aspect of Ismaili Tariqa.

Zahiri follow the words in exact totality.they are 'LAKIR KE FAKIR'. they are at mercy/slave to the written words or sentence or more.

Zahiri level debates need lot of reading,rote learning, Googling n memorization n stretching one own nerves n brain cells beyond limit.

It can get a person severe headaches and sleepless nights n instill fear in it's heart n mind.

To: Haqiqati momin a_27282:

Ya ali Madad.

I have just expressed the word' Black' from interpretation.

You co-related the color brown n white with it and seeking an answer for a particular person.

You are forming your own conclusion.which may be skirting around bull's eye. You may be making Fair assessment out of it.

I wish you try to read work of Shams Tabriz, he has explained it beautifully on recognizing the soul status of the living person.

I am a ferocious advocate of ALI at any level till the last drop of my blood.

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:21 pm

nuseri wrote:
I have just expressed the word' Black' from interpretation.

You co-related the color brown n white with it and seeking an answer for a particular person.

You are forming your own conclusion.which may be skirting around bull's eye. You may be making Fair assessment out of it.

I wish you try to read work of Shams Tabriz, he has explained it beautifully on recognizing the soul status of the living person.

I am a ferocious advocate of ALI at any level till the last drop of my blood.

Mowla Ali Madad.

when a subject is opened in a forum, widespread discussion and debate is inevitable.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:31 am

I wish to know is there is any Ayats/Verses in Quran which goes like 'Allah' addressing/ warning or stating punishment to below category of persons or akin to below category of persons ?

Persons who are suspecting Allah and Challenging HIM to show his signs/proof at a drop of every hat.

SHAQUE ALI PEE HAI KASOTI TUMARI.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:15 pm

Persons who are suspecting Allah and Challenging HIM to show his signs/proof at a drop of every hat.

The day you come out of shackles of this manmade dummy god's my brother....the day you realize that god is everywhere that's the day you will feel that god is with you. You will never get batini deedar of the divine....ever ever ever in your life because you search him in some human being...like hindus do in idols that they create...like christians do with crucifix, like muslims who visit kaaba circle it, throw stones and feel their sins are forgiven. They think its the cube that connects them to almighty etc, etc, etc.

In today's world we have made god into a commodity....its a business....They say the more you give the more you get....tum 1 rupya doge woh 10 lakh dega remember ??

Its a business my friend and god is not money hungry he never was !!!....He never wanted his pilgrims to spend millions and millions on him [bhagwaan ka mukut[crown], the food [milk, cheese, ghee], nandi, awal sufra, manmurad mehmaani, dua karawi and to top all that mothly taxes that a murid pays = dason, tithe, daswant ....Shaving of head during pilgrimage [hindu or muslims]...Just think about it man !!!....Is this the reason why he created us ?? ...Im not saying our imams or other preachers misuse these funds but does god really need money ?? Ask this question to yourself bro and see what answer you get.

We sell god [murtis, baapa jo photo, tasbih, chaadar in some dargah, zam zam water etc etc]

We bribe god [Ya hazar imam exam mein pass kardena roz subah mein jk aaunga]

We negotiate with god [ Theek hai Im sorry I hurt you but you did the same !!!...Ok you gimme what I want and I'll do the same

]

If a child drops the photo of hazar imam his mom would be like ....peer shah, peer shah jaldi bappa ko sorry bolo !!!

You know why we do all this ??? .....We are not god LOVING people, WE ARE GOD FEARING PEOPLE

There is no difference between you and zznoor......deep inside you both are god fearing, NOT GOD LOVING.

Today Im convinced that all the religions need god but god does not need any religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JaG77jxDzc

Post by **Admin** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:04 pm

zznoor wrote:

Why single out Muslims. Abuse happens in all cultures and in all religions
The fact is no culture in the world makes it a show of their religion as much as Muslims do and no other culture emphasise that much that horrible things they are doing to woman is in the name of their God and their Holy Book.

This is not to generalise, the majority of Muslim do not support the ill treatment of women but how many Muslim revolt and oppose it in action [as we Ismaili do?]

I believe not saying anything when someone mistreat women in the name if Islam is being guilty as much as the person that abuse them.

Prayers without action is but pride.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:42 am

To Mr Virani:
I have asked a question related to topic heading.You have diverted the subject for the reasons better known to you.
I have set of 5 questions from your above sermon. I will start asking them one by one in order of maturity.Please note that NO crutches allowed that is 'copy pasting' and 'outside links'.
The first question is:
HOW AND WHAT IS BAATIN DIDAR OF DIVINE ?.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:32 pm

To Mr Virani:
I have asked a question related to topic heading.You have diverted the subject for the reasons better known to you.

It is in sync with the topic my friend. You are trying to understand something which you cannot comprehend. Why ??? ....Because god as per you reside in only one human being i.e imams[as], Just like the majority of muslims think god resides only in kaaba. So in that case are your questions even valid ???....The problem is you're trying to look for the answers in questions.

HOW AND WHAT IS BAATIN DIDAR OF DIVINE ?.

In order to understand what is baatin deedar of divine, we should understand what is divine in 1st place ?? People say divine has no shape, no size...it is something which we cannot comprehend but now I realize that the divine can be anything/ anywhere [can take any form/ any shape] and is not exclusive to ismailis or any other faith for he does not belong to any particular religion. Divine is in us !!....Divine was in Al Hallaj who understood the true meaning of divine.

Do you think Al Hallaj reached marifat just by saying his bandagi day and night ?? Or do you think he reached marifat by giving up his worldly life ??

I personally never felt this happy all my life because like you even I used to jump from one deedar to another in order to see the noor of allah. Not just that I even went to few mandir's/ church in the past to get a glimpse of god and all I saw was either their was some murti or crucifix or the photo of hazar imam but NO GOD

Same thing happened to me when I went to the mosque last eid where people stood in line facing a dome... But even there....there was no trace of god ....so where is god ?? The answer to this question is present in every single scripture but unfortunately the way we are raised we're always told that ismailism is the best....Just like every other faith would say.

I liked the way you asked me this question, the very 1st thing you asked me was HOW ???...Lets find out !!!

Bhagwat Gita

Chapter 16 : 1-3

The Blessed Lord said: Fearlessness, purification of one's existence, cultivation of spiritual knowledge, charity, self-control, performance of sacrifice, study of the Vedas, austerity and simplicity; nonviolence, truthfulness, freedom from anger; renunciation, tranquility, aversion to faultfinding, compassion and freedom from covetousness; gentleness, modesty and steady determination; vigor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, freedom from envy and the passion for honor--these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature.

Bible

Psalm 1:1-6

Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night. He is like a tree planted by streams of water that yields its fruit in its season, and its leaf does not wither. In all that he does, he prospers. The wicked are not so, but are like chaff that the wind drives away. Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous; ...

Quran

2:177

Righteousness is not that you turn your faces to the east and the west [in prayer]. But righteous is the one who believes in God, the Last Day, the Angels, the Scripture and the Prophets; who gives his wealth in spite of love for it to kinsfolk, orphans, the poor, the wayfarer, to those who ask and to set slaves free. And (righteous are) those who pray, pay alms, honor their agreements, and are patient in (times of) poverty, ailment and during conflict. Such are the people of truth. And they are pious.[/b]

I can go on and on but what Im trying to tell you is in order to see the divine one must have self realization just like Gautam Buddha, Al Hallaj and others had. Only then one would get actual batini deedar of divine.

Once you know HOW only then you would know WHAT IS BATIN DEEDAR OF DIVINE

They say the soul of the man is immortal, but the soul of the righteous is immortal and DIVINE