Explaination needed of Koran Ayat.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:33 am

Telling and considering our beloved MHI as a horse racer is not an insult then what is it??

But it is fact. Kadwa fact for Ismailis

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:59 pm

agakhani wrote:Telling and considering our beloved MHI as a horse racer is not an insult then what is it??

what's wrong in horse racing ? can you quote a farman or an ayat forbidding horse racing ? what about soccer (football) ?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:25 pm

But it is fact. Kadwa fact for Ismailis

Many historian wrote in their books that some time Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) used to arrange horse racing after prayers if you consider our MHI as a Horse racer then you should consider prophet Mohd as a "HORSE RACER" too!!! because he arranged many horse/camel racing during peace time when they do not have to fight with enemies.

Kyo Bolti bandh kar di na.

what's wrong in horse racing ? can you quote a farman or an ayat forbidding horse racing ? what about soccer (football) ?

Nothing wrong in horse racing if you read history books during the time of Prophet Mohammed and H. Ali (s.a.) then you can find easily that horse/camel racing was very popular during that days.
Once prophet Mohammed arranged a Pony horse racing and you know what!? Imam Hussein won that race so, Prophet gave him lots of applaud and gave him some gift, this is historian proved fact.

Soccer football is just fine, do not come in talks with a nonsense person who do not knows what she is writing in jealousy.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:55 pm

Wah,
Ulta chor kotwal ko dande!
You Told me pig and I just answered for your this titel, the only think I am waiting is when my female pig will arrive so that we both can play in mud.
You know whom I talking about that who is my female pig is? Let me give you little hint
Her name start with z and end with the word _!?

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:51 pm

a_27826 wrote:
agakhani wrote:Telling and considering our beloved MHI as a horse racer is not an insult then what is it??
what's wrong in horse racing ? can you quote a farman or an ayat forbidding horse racing ? what about soccer (football) ?

Horse racing
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=2646

tret · Post by **tret** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:18 am

zznoor wrote:
I want you to remember one thing and take it with you, once you leave here is the following:
I am not going anywhere except when I go upstairs.
If I post anything detractors will leave thread subject and peruse me.

I am sure your loyalty to this site won't go un-noticed; but you missed my point.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:31 pm

I am sure your loyalty to this site won't go un-noticed; but you missed my point.

Tret brother,

Which loyalty of ZZNoor are you talking about!!?

-Criticized our beloved MHI whenever she has little chance!?
-Telling some one pig! and take silence from her side!
- Make her own ayas interpretation and make us to follow that ( for example 5 time salats is not mentioned any where in Quran but she made her own interpretation and try to impose that on us that it is quoted in Quran!!) is this is not the wrong interpretation then what is it??
- Coping and pasting garbage and through that garbage in this website! to mislead other reader ,is this her loyalty
-Put unbelievable comments in jealousy, is this her loyalty for this site?

When everybody in this forum* (bro Admin, Bro Shams, bro Nuseri and my self) wants that she leaves this site and go some Sunny site with her trash talk but you are from one of two persons who always backed her and encouraged her to stay here SIR, SHE WAS NEVER LOYAL, SHE IS NOT LOYAL RIGHT NOW AND I PROMISE THAT SHE WILL NOT BE LOYAL THIS WEBSITE, NEVER EVER BRO.

Brother Tret,
You do not know about her aim and intention to stay in this website despite of too many insults but when you will know then you will not forgive your self.
"Samaj ne walo ko ishara Kafi hai"
* for proof you need to read above mentioned persons older post or ask them directly but I do not have time to find out that.

tret · Post by **tret** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:31 pm

agakhani wrote:
I am sure your loyalty to this site won't go un-noticed; but you missed my point.
Tret brother,

Which loyalty of ZZNoor are you talking about!!?

-Criticized our beloved MHI whenever she has little chance!?
-Telling some one pig! and take silence from her side!
- Make her own ayas interpretation and make us to follow that ( for example 5 time salats is not mentioned any where in Quran but she made her own interpretation and try to impose that on us that it is quoted in Quran!!) is this is not the wrong interpretation then what is it??
- Coping and pasting garbage and through that garbage in this website! to mislead other reader ,is this her loyalty
-Put unbelievable comments in jealousy, is this her loyalty for this site?

When everybody in this forum* (bro Admin, Bro Shams, bro Nuseri and my self) wants that she leaves this site and go some Sunny site with her trash talk but you are from one of two persons who always backed her and encouraged her to stay here SIR, SHE WAS NEVER LOYAL, SHE IS NOT LOYAL RIGHT NOW AND I PROMISE THAT SHE WILL NOT BE LOYAL THIS WEBSITE, NEVER EVER BRO.

Brother Tret,
You do not know about her aim and intention to stay in this website despite of too many insults but when you will know then you will not forgive your self.
"Samaj ne walo ko ishara Kafi hai"
* for proof you need to read above mentioned persons older post or ask them directly but I do not have time to find out that.

Dear agakhani - if you pay attention to what I said, you'd know. When I said loyalty, I specifically meant a loyal member of this site.

Besides, why should we worry about her aim, if we have strong faith? Let her try her best; but if one out of 1000 word of ours change her perspective, then it'll be all worth it. But if not, at least we tried.

tret · Post by **tret** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:54 pm

The following message is to everyone but in this specific case agakhani brother.

I wouldn't worry about what zznoor says and her comments about our beloved Maula or our Tariqa. Everyone reflects their personalities and values in their speech and deeds. The following is one of great advises of Maula Ali.

آدمی به گفتارش سنجیده میشود و به رفتارش ارزیابی.
چیزی بگو که سخنت سنگین و قیمت ات بالا برود.

Meaning:

A man is measured by his speech and evaluated (or assessed) by his deeds.
So say something that your speech becomes heavy and do something that your value becomes higher.

tret · Post by **tret** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:02 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:tret said :

Can you please be kind and put together a pharagraph or two about the concept of creation in the Ginans?
Hope this helps

simerg.com/literary-readings/concepts-of-modern-cosmology-and-astrophysics-in-two-ismaili-ginans-choghadia-and-mul-gayatri/

Thank you Shiraz.virani brother for this link. It's very interesting article and certainly appreciated, I would sometime to reflect on it.

It would be helpful if I heard it in your own words. Thank you again.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:52 pm

I wouldn't worry about what zznoor says and her comments about our beloved Maula or our Tariqa. Everyone reflects their personalities and values in their speech and deeds. The following is one of great advises of Maula Ali.

I have not said anything bad about MHI or Ismaili Tariqa. Just pointing out differences.

tret · Post by **tret** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:29 pm

zznoor wrote:Dua and Salat are 2 different mode of worship

Dua and Salat are very well described in Wikipedia.

for Salat see
http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salat

for Dua see

http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dua

Anybody who considers content unauthentic are free to include their views views in Wiki.

Ismailis would be welcome to justify their Dua as a form of Islamic Salat/Namaaz.

Du'a and Namaz coexisted all the time. It's not forbidden in ismailie Tariqa to offer Namaz. If an ismailie chooses to offer Namaz as well as Du'a, there's no problem. In fact in some part of the world Jama'at offers Namaz and Du'a and Jamat has Mosque as well as Jamat Khana.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:15 pm

Jene sharam ne neje muki tene aakhi dunia neje muki
Bakwas bandh kar ane e batav ke tu kyare Mari patni (wife) banish?
for those English readers
Do not take it just a laugh but tell me when you will become my wife?
This measege is for ZZnoor she is not a my sister any more but she is a my own wife now. She is my littel piglet and I want to do ilu ilu in mud with her. period.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:20 pm

tret
Du'a and Namaz coexisted all the time. It's not forbidden in ismailie Tariqa to offer Namaz. If an ismailie chooses to offer Namaz as well as Du'a, there's no problem.

Brother we are going in circles.
Salat/Namaz is fird on Muslim. Prophet, Sahabas and Imams prayed Salat.
Question of choice does not arise for both Shia and Sunni Muslims. 49% of Muslim offer Salat regularly.
We have gone thru it so lets not visit this.
My post was to draw attention to difference between Dua and Salat.
I hope you visit it.
Salaam

tret · Post by **tret** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:00 pm

zznoor wrote: Question of choice does not arise for both Shia and Sunni Muslims. 49% of Muslim offer Salat regularly.

If it's not question of choice, then only why 49%? Why not 100% of'em offer regular Namaz?

I think you are barking on the wrong tree. It's the choice of a person, whether to offer prayer or not. We are not talking about who offers Namaz who doesn't! The actual question is who believes in Namaz and who doesn't.

Now, like I said, Du'a and Namaz historically has always co-existed, and there is not Farmaan of any Imam to prohibit Namaz. There are Ismailies who offer Namaz and there are those who don't. Same like twelvers and Sunnis, that 49% offer Namaz and the rest don't. That doesn't mean that only 49% believes in Namaz. Do you get it now?

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:16 pm

If it's not question of choice, then only why 49%? Why not 100% of'em offer regular Namaz?

If you ask remaining 51% Muslim you will always find that Salat/Namaz is fird. They will say
They willfully do not offer for myriad of reasons. Some pray only Jumma, Some pray only Eid Prayers. They do not have no concern for Akhirat.
One thing sure, 99% will get one Namaz that is Janaza Namaz.

It appears from your posts that Salat/Namaz and Dua are to different things.

Post by **Admin** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:41 pm

Ismailism has survived because it has always been fluid. Rigidity is contrary to our whole way of life and outlook. There have really been no cut and dried rules; even the set of regulations known as the Holy Laws are directions as to method and procedure and not detailed orders about results to be obtained. . [Memoirs] Aga Khan III

sheri · Post by **sheri** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:56 pm

I really like this quote. However, just want to point out that all religions have survived - from the oldest to the youngest and in large numbers. Ismailism is not a religion - it is a way of life at that specific time and place. Only the word of the current imam is applicable. Anything directed by the previous imams, pirs, prophets hold very little weight. The historic directive shed light on the evolution of the ismaili thought process, provide a glimpse in history, and provide proof of the imamat. Interpreting anything more than that is literally living in the past. Each current imam has reiterated the tenants of ismailism at that point in time, and those should be taken as the ultimate directive. Anything which the current imam has not reiterated, those historic tenants don't hold the same value as they did when they were recited by the previous imams, pirs, etc.

Admin wrote:Ismailism has survived because it has always been fluid. Rigidity is contrary to our whole way of life and outlook. There have really been no cut and dried rules; even the set of regulations known as the Holy Laws are directions as to method and procedure and not detailed orders about results to be obtained. . [Memoirs] Aga Khan III

Post by **Admin** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:03 pm

Sheri you have no idea of what is Ismailism. i would suggest that you do some reading before posting.

Contrary to the misconception you are propagating, the Farmans of each previous Imam is valid and respected as such unless contradicted by a more recent Farman. Our religion is Sirat al Mustaqueem. Call it by any name. It won't change our concept. If you are willing to read a litle bit about Ismailism and cannot get the appropriate sources, please let us know. There are many ere that would suggest some basic learning...

There is no need for you to post in Doctrine section if you think Ismailism is not a religion. You are entitled to your opinion. I also suggest you read the rules of postings before your next move so you are not surprised and don't question why your posts get deleted.

sheri · Post by **sheri** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:16 pm

I did not expect a response like this from the Admin of the website. What you just said is totally against the esoteric and pluralistic nature of Ismailism. You are welcome to abuse your Admin status to block/delete post that are in contradiction to your interpretation of Ismailism.

Anyhow, why don't you provide reference to this fact:
"The Farmans of each previous Imam is valid and respected as such unless contradicted by a more recent Farman." So, why IMAM SMS farmans' are not recited in Jamatkhana?

Admin wrote:Sheri you have no idea of what is Ismailism. i would suggest that you do some reading before posting.

Contrary to the misconception you are propagating, the Farmans of each previous Imam is valid and respected as such unless contradicted by a more recent Farman. Our religion is Sirat al Mustaqueem. Call it by any name. It won't change our concept. If you are willing to read a litle bit about Ismailism and cannot get the appropriate sources, please let us know. There are many ere that would suggest some basic learning...

There is no need for you to post in Doctrine section if you think Ismailism is not a religion. You are entitled to your opinion. I also suggest you read the rules of postings before your next move so you are not surprised and don't question why your posts get deleted.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:21 pm

Ya Ali madad.

I many time read the fancy word called 'Namaz.'(acrobats).

This word is not mentioned anywhere in Quran.

This word cannot also be legally a part of Sharia ( canonical law)
is the constitution of that country.

Is this a Fatwa of any entity or a street side Moulana,Mullah,Kazi or Moulvi?

I am curious to know about it. Please reply if any in 2-3 lines maximum.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:50 am

I many time read the fancy word called 'Namaz.'(acrobats).

Word Namaz is used by indo-Persian-Turkish Muslims for Arabic word Salat/Salah.

Please do not use word Acrobat and insult belief of 90.9 % of Muslims.
BTW Ismaili Dua also has one acrobatic movement.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:51 am

From Wikipedia

Salat

Muslims themselves use several terms to refer to salat depending on their language or culture. In many parts of the world, including many non-Arab countries such as Indonesia, the Arabic term salat is used. The other major term is the Persian word namāz (نماز), used by speakers of the Indo-Iranian languages (e.g., Persian, Urdu), as well as Turkish, Russian (in an Islamic context),Chinese, Bosnian and Albanian.

Post by **Admin** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:00 am

sheri wrote:Anyhow, why don't you provide reference to this fact:
"The Farmans of each previous Imam is valid and respected as such unless contradicted by a more recent Farman."

This is what I mean when I ask you to read the basic tenet of Ismailism before posting. Each Imam confirms the Farmans of the previous Imam when he becomes the next Imam.

Admin

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:01 am

Hellow..... everyone in this forum
Don't you think Sheri is new reincarnation of TRET!!!

Any way She asked me a question regarding ginans her knowledge in ginans is very limited she doesn't know that the first pir came in India was pir Satgur Noor (s.a) not pir Salhuddin.

Our ancestor were illiterate and they were under strong influence of Hinduism, if pir had started to preach them in Arabic words like "Allah, Rassol, Nabi e.t.c. then that was very hard to understand therefore pirs studied Hinduism and compare their gods ( Vishnu ) as H. Ali. if they had told them H. Ali is the god or reincarnation of god; then they might not have understand it and might not converted in Ismailism.

Question Tret sorry to Sheri.

There are many Kafirs name in Quran, did quran revealed from them!??

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:13 am

Sorry one quick correction:-

Question Tret sorry to Sheri.

There are many Kafirs name in Quran, did quran revealed from them!??
not the from but should be for

There are many Kafirs name in Quran, did quran revealed for them!??

sheri · Post by **sheri** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:05 am

So, why IMAM SMS farmans' are not recited in Jamatkhana?

This is not stated in any constitution or farman. This is a made up statement. Please provide evidence and it would be good to put some thought into why farmans from previous imams are not recited in Jamat Khana before coming to conclusions.

Admin wrote:
sheri wrote:Anyhow, why don't you provide reference to this fact:
"The Farmans of each previous Imam is valid and respected as such unless contradicted by a more recent Farman."
This is what I mean when I ask you to read the basic tenet of Ismailism before posting. Each Imam confirms the Farmans of the previous Imam when he becomes the next Imam.

Admin

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:04 pm

So, why IMAM SMS farmans' are not recited in Jamatkhana?

Imam SMS's farmans are still reciting in India and other countries.

Matter of fact one farmans of SMS is reciting in all Jamat khanas through out the world, this farman is about "CHANDRAT'

sheri · Post by **sheri** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:29 pm

Are IMAM Hassan Ali Shah and Aqa Ali Shah farmans also recited?

agakhani wrote:
So, why IMAM SMS farmans' are not recited in Jamatkhana?
Imam SMS's farmans are still reciting in India and other countries.

Matter of fact one farmans of SMS is reciting in all Jamat khanas through out the world, this farman is about "CHANDRAT'

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:28 pm

Sheri said :

Are IMAM Hassan Ali Shah and Aqa Ali Shah farmans also recited?

What do you think about holy quran ???...Should we read and follow it OR just because its 1400 years old now we should wait for the current imam to publish a new one [WITH PICTURES]