shiraz.virani wrote:Sheri said :
Are IMAM Hassan Ali Shah and Aqa Ali Shah farmans also recited?
What do you think about holy quran ???...Should we read and follow it OR just because its 1400 years old now we should wait for the current imam to publish a new one [WITH PICTURES]
Explaination needed of Koran Ayat.
This is a futile question. It definitely has an historic significance - there is no doubt about that and also a fundamental basis. However, if it had a practical significance then we would be reading it daily cover-to-cover in Jamat Khana.
to admin:Admin wrote:Sheri you have no idea of what is Ismailism. i would suggest that you do some reading before posting.
Contrary to the misconception you are propagating, the Farmans of each previous Imam is valid and respected as such unless contradicted by a more recent Farman. Our religion is Sirat al Mustaqueem. Call it by any name. It won't change our concept. If you are willing to read a litle bit about Ismailism and cannot get the appropriate sources, please let us know. There are many ere that would suggest some basic learning...
There is no need for you to post in Doctrine section if you think Ismailism is not a religion. You are entitled to your opinion. I also suggest you read the rules of postings before your next move so you are not surprised and don't question why your posts get deleted.
Did it cross to your mind that Sheri may be an agnostic, though he himself may know that he is ?
if that is true, then i welcome him to this site.
As we already have a Wahabi in this site participating, then surely you can accommodate an agnostic as well.
I haven't read rules of this site but are there any rules of this site for a non-believers NOT to particiape ?
Please stop with the personal attacks, they are really not helping anyone here. I would love for you to answer my question about beej and why we have that physical fasting while we ignore the ramadan fast, than you judging my iman and beliefs.
a_27826 wrote:to admin:Admin wrote:Sheri you have no idea of what is Ismailism. i would suggest that you do some reading before posting.
Contrary to the misconception you are propagating, the Farmans of each previous Imam is valid and respected as such unless contradicted by a more recent Farman. Our religion is Sirat al Mustaqueem. Call it by any name. It won't change our concept. If you are willing to read a litle bit about Ismailism and cannot get the appropriate sources, please let us know. There are many ere that would suggest some basic learning...
There is no need for you to post in Doctrine section if you think Ismailism is not a religion. You are entitled to your opinion. I also suggest you read the rules of postings before your next move so you are not surprised and don't question why your posts get deleted.
Did it cross to your mind that Sheri may be an agnostic, though he himself may know that he is ?
if that is true, then i welcome him to this site.
As we already have a Wahabi in this site participating, then surely you can accommodate an agnostic as well.
I haven't read rules of this site but are there any rules of this site for a non-believers NOT to particiape ?
So does wrong allegation, wrong criticism, and half knowledge does not help, matter of fact half knowledge is very dangerous and I am seeing that one of day it will harm your iman and it is possible that you may leave a sanatani satpanth a true path for salvation which is called as an ismailism. Brother sorry sister you need to learn mor about Ismaili sect and then after you can give us comments.
Did not I mentioned you this in your old life i.e in your Tret life?
Damn my guess will put me in trouble one of days but let me ask you this? Are not you that ginan hater Tret?? My old buddy whose believings are totally different and he override imams farmans? Damn my mind ..... But he told me and many others Hindus!
Even bro Shiraz too
Did not I mentioned you this in your old life i.e in your Tret life?
Damn my guess will put me in trouble one of days but let me ask you this? Are not you that ginan hater Tret?? My old buddy whose believings are totally different and he override imams farmans? Damn my mind ..... But he told me and many others Hindus!
Even bro Shiraz too
sheri wrote:So, why IMAM SMS farmans' are not recited in Jamatkhana?
This is not stated in any constitution or farman. This is a made up statement. Please provide evidence and it would be good to put some thought into why farmans from previous imams are not recited in Jamat Khana before coming to conclusions.
Admin wrote:This is what I mean when I ask you to read the basic tenet of Ismailism before posting. Each Imam confirms the Farmans of the previous Imam when he becomes the next Imam.sheri wrote:Anyhow, why don't you provide reference to this fact:
"The Farmans of each previous Imam is valid and respected as such unless contradicted by a more recent Farman."
Admin
All the Farameen are valid and correct! I want you (all of us) to listen to the latest interview of MHI with CBC's peter mansbridge, where as MHI said, I can't recall the exact sentence of phrase, but it was about the interpretation. I guess MHI was referring that interpretation is directly related to time and space, where the interpretation is done. So, Farameen of previous Imams are of course valid, and unless it's over-ruled by a later Farmaan, it will still be valid! Farameens are guidance which are send to Murids according to the time and era they are in.
Just guessing or thinking is not good to force another readers to believe it!
Did you forget that what I asked you! Who the heck are you? Who interpret his own ways? and over ride the farmans of MHI with his own made wrong interpretations, brother sorry sister Sheri your action is totally wrong. And you can not fool some of us except a_27826 and my w..e ZzNoor.
Did you forget that what I asked you! Who the heck are you? Who interpret his own ways? and over ride the farmans of MHI with his own made wrong interpretations, brother sorry sister Sheri your action is totally wrong. And you can not fool some of us except a_27826 and my w..e ZzNoor.
I will ask again, if the prior IMAM farmans are as relevant and so is the Quran, why do we not bring them forth in Jamati ceremonies.
Dear - these are all interpretations, there is no right or wrong. Your interpretations are not right and my interpretations are not right. It is only the word of the current IMAM that is right. It was the word of the Holy Prophet that was right. It was the word of Jesus that was right. There is nothing more to it.
You are free to imagine and interpret as you wish. Nothing changes the fundamental belief that the word of the current IMAM is absolute.
Dear - these are all interpretations, there is no right or wrong. Your interpretations are not right and my interpretations are not right. It is only the word of the current IMAM that is right. It was the word of the Holy Prophet that was right. It was the word of Jesus that was right. There is nothing more to it.
You are free to imagine and interpret as you wish. Nothing changes the fundamental belief that the word of the current IMAM is absolute.
agakhani wrote:Just guessing or thinking is not good to force another readers to believe it!
Did you forget that what I asked you! Who the heck are you? Who interpret his own ways? and over ride the farmans of MHI with his own made wrong interpretations, brother sorry sister Sheri your action is totally wrong. And you can not fool some of us except a_27826 and my w..e ZzNoor.
So why fast on Beej and not in Ramadan?
Being an Ismaili so many years and you do not know the reason of Sukarwari fasting in Ismaili sect!?I defiantly like to know about Beej fasting.
Nobody told you in Amadavad?
Kher,
We Ismailis are keeping fast on Sukarwari Bij means that day should be Friday and should be Beej to give thanksgiving to our great pir Hasan Kabirdin (s.a.)
Our belief is that and it also mentioned in his ginans that he gave Sawab of his "4 YUGAS" Ibadat to us! so that we can have easy salvation of our souls in this Kaliyug where are too many sins.
For Pir Hasan Kabirdin's this niyamat to Ismailis, we keep "Roja for his Shukargujari /thankgiving.
FYI:- So far not any Ismaili Imams told us not to keep Roja on Ramadan, if you can keep it then there is no restriction on it, I have seen many Ismailis specially came from Pakistan keeps Roza on this holy month. and there is nothing wrong in it!.
This is your interpretation. There is no official document explaining the significance of Beej being related to giving thanks to the Pir.
Friday is a special day for Muslims all over the world. The Islamic calendar is a moon-based calendar and therefore we celebrate Chand-raat. Eid is celebrated on the basis of new moon sightings. When New Moon (Chandraat) falls on a Friday, it increases the significance of the special Friday even more and we keep Beej. Why New Moon increases the significance of the Friday, only Allah know. There has been no official commentary on this by the IMAM.
Friday is a special day for Muslims all over the world. The Islamic calendar is a moon-based calendar and therefore we celebrate Chand-raat. Eid is celebrated on the basis of new moon sightings. When New Moon (Chandraat) falls on a Friday, it increases the significance of the special Friday even more and we keep Beej. Why New Moon increases the significance of the Friday, only Allah know. There has been no official commentary on this by the IMAM.
agakhani wrote:So why fast on Beej and not in Ramadan?Being an Ismaili so many years and you do not know the reason of Sukarwari fasting in Ismaili sect!?I defiantly like to know about Beej fasting.
Nobody told you in Amadavad?
Kher,
We Ismailis are keeping fast on Sukarwari Bij means that day should be Friday and should be Beej to give thanksgiving to our great pir Hasan Kabirdin (s.a.)
Our belief is that and it also mentioned in his ginans that he gave Sawab of his "4 YUGAS" Ibadat to us! so that we can have easy salvation of our souls in this Kaliyug where are too many sins.
For Pir Hasan Kabirdin's this niyamat to Ismailis, we keep "Roja for his Shukargujari /thankgiving.
FYI:- So far not any Ismaili Imams told us not to keep Roja on Ramadan, if you can keep it then there is no restriction on it, I have seen many Ismailis specially came from Pakistan keeps Roza on this holy month. and there is nothing wrong in it!.
sheri wrote:This is your interpretation. There is no official document explaining the significance of Beej being related to giving thanks to the Pir.
Friday is a special day for Muslims all over the world. The Islamic calendar is a moon-based calendar and therefore we celebrate Chand-raat. Eid is celebrated on the basis of new moon sightings. When New Moon (Chandraat) falls on a Friday, it increases the significance of the special Friday even more and we keep Beej. Why New Moon increases the significance of the Friday, only Allah know. There has been no official commentary on this by the IMAM.
agakhani wrote:So why fast on Beej and not in Ramadan?Being an Ismaili so many years and you do not know the reason of Sukarwari fasting in Ismaili sect!?I defiantly like to know about Beej fasting.
Nobody told you in Amadavad?
Kher,
We Ismailis are keeping fast on Sukarwari Bij means that day should be Friday and should be Beej to give thanksgiving to our great pir Hasan Kabirdin (s.a.)
Our belief is that and it also mentioned in his ginans that he gave Sawab of his "4 YUGAS" Ibadat to us! so that we can have easy salvation of our souls in this Kaliyug where are too many sins.
For Pir Hasan Kabirdin's this niyamat to Ismailis, we keep "Roja for his Shukargujari /thankgiving.
FYI:- So far not any Ismaili Imams told us not to keep Roja on Ramadan, if you can keep it then there is no restriction on it, I have seen many Ismailis specially came from Pakistan keeps Roza on this holy month. and there is nothing wrong in it!.
There has been commentary on this by the Imam - and that is the PRESENT IMAM to say nonetheless -
Just because you aren't aware of it - doesn't mean it's not true.
And no - i am not going to share that with you - just like there has been commentary on the Imam being Allah - and lots of Farmans - which aren't accessible to the nonmurid.
You don't want to believe something - all the more power to you - don't shove your crap down other people's throats.
Just because you say the earth is flat - because you don't understand how it's round - doesn't mean it's flat.
You want to believe it - go for it - don't force your interpretation on the rest of us -
You aren't the Imam
and the Imam stresses on plurality within the faith - different traditions - different interpretations
It seems that you and unfortunately tret these days have taken the tact of zznoor of using a broad paintbrush of being more enlightened than anyone else and that giving you manifest destiny like power - that to demean and ridicule other individuals beliefs.
Oh and about the prophet being the last and final prophet - is very true - however keep in mind - the prophet was also the first PIR.
In regards to the constitution - read the Will of Imam Sultan Mohammed Shah - He appointed Shah Karim as Shah AND PIR - of the SHIA IMAMI ISMAILI MUSLIMS
Not just the Indo Pak or the Syrians or the Tajikis - but all of us - collectively.
Digest that.
Shams
Who say we do not have references I will give you solid reference would you believe it?If you don't have references then you credibility is in question? Not mine.
First let me ask you this brother Tret Urfe Sheri do you believe in ginans? if yes then go ahead and read "Ananat Akhado" of pir Hasan Kabirdin. and you will find above events in it.
I, know you will not accept this reference because you do not have trust on our great ginans, the only references you accept either from farmans or must be from Quran!! but wait I am giving you the name of the books "KALAM E IMAM E MUBIN" which contain all farmans of SMS in this farman books he mentioned about "Roza" Anant Aakhado and about pirs so, why don't you read it ? it is also available in Urdu language now a days!.
The ginans were only for converting Hindus to Ismailis. There are some moral values to be gained for the ginans but any analogies, references are just for the sake of conversion.
I just did a crtl-F on "beej" in the Anant Akaado and there is nothing in there describing the beej.
Please provide reference for the year and place of the farman that you are referring to in the Kalam-e-Imam-Mubin that states that the beej is kept to give thanks to the Pir.
I just did a crtl-F on "beej" in the Anant Akaado and there is nothing in there describing the beej.
Please provide reference for the year and place of the farman that you are referring to in the Kalam-e-Imam-Mubin that states that the beej is kept to give thanks to the Pir.
Brother ShamsB,It seems that you and unfortunately tret these days have taken the tact of zznoor of using a broad paintbrush of being more enlightened than anyone else and that giving you manifest destiny like power - that to demean and ridicule other individuals beliefs.
Tret and Sheri are same person, after carefully reviewed and compared their languages along with their few sentences I can easily tell you this that yes, they are same person.
It is not hidden that Treat and other few are supporting ZZNoor and there for she become even more out of control and become "OUT LAWS' , she does not fear to ban her account any more because brother Admin is the one of her supporter!! if not then he is definitely in in sleeping mode.[/quote]
To me, she is ruling this forum, she is "BETAJ QUEEN" of this forum all thanks goes to brother Admin's ignorance. I, hope he wake up soon before it become worst! I told him many times that her purpose to come in this forum is not to learn something new but spread anti-ismaili thoughts.
Kahte hai ki samajdaro ko ishara kafi hai.
agakhani - you have again resorted to personal attacks. Just because your interpretation is being questioned and that you have believed over the years is crumbling, does not mean that the Admin should start banning individuals.
The only way to agree on a specific topic is to provide accurate references. I looked up the reference to Anant Akaado you provided and there is no mention of beej - I gave you the benefit of doubt. Now, I am going one more step further by giving you the benefit of doubt and asking you to provide me with the place and year of the farman in which IMAM SMS has explained the concept of beej and you start resorting to personal attacks. Please provide references, otherwise you lose your credibility.
The only way to agree on a specific topic is to provide accurate references. I looked up the reference to Anant Akaado you provided and there is no mention of beej - I gave you the benefit of doubt. Now, I am going one more step further by giving you the benefit of doubt and asking you to provide me with the place and year of the farman in which IMAM SMS has explained the concept of beej and you start resorting to personal attacks. Please provide references, otherwise you lose your credibility.
I am placing the most emphasis on the word of the IMAM. I am saying that whatever the IMAM say is the right interpretation. I am saying that the constitution and the paris conference documents which have been personally approved by the IMAM are good sources of reference.agakhani wrote: I told him many times that her purpose to come in this forum is not to learn something new but spread anti-ismaili thoughts.
Kahte hai ki samajdaro ko ishara kafi hai.
I am saying that anything that I interpret, you interpret, the wazin's interpret, or anyone else interpret is a personal thought. Only the IMAM's interpretation is absolute.
How is all this anti-Ismaili?
Do not you know that this is my first priority to correct those stupid peoples like you who changes their IDS and gives wrong interpretation on almost every thing, there are many foolish people like you in this forum who override even farmans of MHI and hate ginans and you are one of them!
I am straight forward person, who does not fear to point out Admin"s mistakes,then who the heck are you!?
I am straight forward person, who does not fear to point out Admin"s mistakes,then who the heck are you!?
I have not given any interpretation that I have passed on as facts. If I have, I am publicly saying that my interpretations are only my thoughts and opinions. They definitely do not form the basis of Ismailism. And so neither does your interpretation or the thoughts of anyone on this site.agakhani wrote:Do not you know that this is my first priority to correct those stupid peoples like you who changes their IDS and gives wrong interpretation on almost every thing, there are many foolish people like you in this forum who override even farmans of MHI and hate ginans and you are one of them!
I am straight forward person, who does not fear to point out Admin"s mistakes,then who the heck are you!?
Only the interpretation of MHI, the word of MHI form the basis of Ismailism. That's is.
Article 6.2.4 published in the Ismaili Paris Conference has asked all Jamats and individuals to "forward all firmans, whether in manuscript, printed or any other form, of Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah, Mowlana Shah Hassan Ali Shah, and Mowlana Aga Ali Shah, to the Ismaili Association of Pakistan by 31st Dec 1975. These bodies also request individual members of their respective jamats, through suitable announcements, to make available any such material that may be in their possession."agakhani wrote:Imam SMS's farmans are still reciting in India and other countries.So, why IMAM SMS farmans' are not recited in Jamatkhana?
Matter of fact one farmans of SMS is reciting in all Jamat khanas through out the world, this farman is about "CHANDRAT'
Therefore, it has been 39 years that you and your jamats have not adhered to the command of MHI. I humbly request you to adhere to the command of MHI and ask your jamats to send the firmans of IMAM SMS being recited in your jamat khana. By not doing so you are going against the command of our beloved MHI.
Agakhani: Please be a farman bardar momin and send the farmans of IMAM SMS and past IMAMs to the Ismaili Council of Pakistan. Also, ask your jamats to do the same. Thank you.Admin wrote:Yes true. Mowlana SMS asked in 1945 that the Farmans of Imam Hassanali Shah and Aga Ali Shah be published. That is how many years. Yes it has not been followed and yet another Farman in Dubai in 2003 has superseded that Farman also.
Do not tell us to go against Farmans of our Imam. Imam has not said to send Farmans to Council he said if we find any historical document, we can send to the Aga Khan Museum in Toronto where they will be preserved. That is the 2003 Farman in Dubai. There is no need to invent or speculate if you are not informed. The 2003 Dubai Farman is frequently read in all Jamatkhanas and is known to Ismailis and I suppose you have never heard it because you do not attend such places...
If you believe that to be the case, then please send the copies to the Aga Khan Museum. Return them to the authority of your desire. Just make the effort to return it as requested.Admin wrote:Do not tell us to go against Farmans of our Imam. Imam has not said to send Farmans to Council he said if we find any historical document, we can send to the Aga Khan Museum in Toronto where they will be preserved. That is the 2003 Farman in Dubai. There is no need to invent or speculate if you are not informed. The 2003 Dubai Farman is frequently read in all Jamatkhanas and is known to Ismailis and I suppose you have never heard it because you do not attend such places...
Admin,
Did not I told you amd every one in this forum, that he/she interpret farmans in his/her ways? The way he/she likes! for doing this she/he has to make wrong interpretations of farmans or ginans many times, thanks Admin, ShamsB for criticizing him or her for wrong act.
I would love that , if more peoples comes forward and tells the truth like Admin does! this time and he always does whenever necessary arize but Let me give you few names of those persons they are very well educated but intentially Wants not to come in ligjts ; Munir, Nusheri, Shams please come forward and do not shy or affraid to hide any things which you know and notch him/her nose for wrong interpretations of any farmans or gin
BTW my guess still not let me believe that they are different persons!
so brothers come forward and prove him/her wrong.
Thanks admin one more time to be a straight forward person. Not a coward like others in this form except , ShamsB, Nuheri, Munir, Shiraz and that's it.
Did not I told you amd every one in this forum, that he/she interpret farmans in his/her ways? The way he/she likes! for doing this she/he has to make wrong interpretations of farmans or ginans many times, thanks Admin, ShamsB for criticizing him or her for wrong act.
I would love that , if more peoples comes forward and tells the truth like Admin does! this time and he always does whenever necessary arize but Let me give you few names of those persons they are very well educated but intentially Wants not to come in ligjts ; Munir, Nusheri, Shams please come forward and do not shy or affraid to hide any things which you know and notch him/her nose for wrong interpretations of any farmans or gin
BTW my guess still not let me believe that they are different persons!
so brothers come forward and prove him/her wrong.Thanks admin one more time to be a straight forward person. Not a coward like others in this form except , ShamsB, Nuheri, Munir, Shiraz and that's it.