Is cursing (LANAT) allowed in Islam?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:54 am

Is cursing (giving lanat to some one) allowed in Islam !!??

MR-FORGET · Post by **MR-FORGET** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:47 pm

Absolutely not,
Not only Islam but other religions also not allowed to curse each other, but who care? if some one say something or hurt our feelings then we all start to curse him/her, except few.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:47 pm

Thanks for your answer, that is right we should not curse each other but we are human being we have many weaknesses, we have lots of up and down in our daily lives same way we have good and bad feeling too which prevent us not to curse when some one hurt our feeling. But we are human being and we are ordinary peoples but Do you know that Muawiya started as a royal farman to curse Hazarat Ali ( s.a.) in each and every mosque under his region after Fazar prayer? and this cursing/lanat was continued almost 50 years? Thanks the 8Th Abbasid caliph Omar Abdul Aziz who stopped this nonsense but this cursing was continued for a long time.
Now question arise here the cursing towards Hazarat Ali (s.a.) for almost 50 years was right for Muawiaya?

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:12 pm

Now question arise here the cursing towards Hazarat Ali (s.a.) for almost 50 years was right for Muawiaya?

There are many ismailis who even today curse the 1st 3 caliphs of islam , is it correct ? ....Ofcourse not !!...But they still do it....what do we do ?? We try to explain it to them but if they still dont wanna listen then their is nothing much we could do !....Fortunately or unfortunately muwaiya is dead, HE IS DEAD !!!!

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:12 am

There are many ismailis who even today curse the 1st 3 caliphs of islam

Correction:-

It is true that some Ismailis, Shia and Twelvers don't like first 3 caliphs, but that doesn't mean that they curse them, they only 'DISLIKE' them because they robbed the caliphate which was entitled to Hazarat Ali (s.a.), but I don't think they curse them there is a big difference between the words "dislike some" one and "curse some one" and I don't think I need to elaborate more about that for an educated person like you.
Now you may have question why they dislike them? well, there are many reasons behind it, the main reason I mentioned above but for other reasons you need to dig in history and I am pretty sure that history will not lie.

I agree with Mr-forget's answer that nobody should curse to nobody but in my opinion when time comes to tell truth then you shouldn't hide either
(you probably remember that I wrote a true story about Hazarat Umar's escape from 'Jange Badra' and you, brother K and Admin didn't like that and that post was deleted but that doesn't mean that I cursed Hazarat Umar, only I declared my dis-likeness towards Hazarat Umar but it was not curse ) a wise man never curse anybody he may 'like' or 'dislike' some one but he never curses any body even though he knows that what is right and what is wrong because any curse always bounce back towards cursers.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:21 pm

It is true that some Ismailis, Shia and Twelvers don't like first 3 caliphs, but that doesn't mean that they curse them, they only 'DISLIKE' them because they robbed the caliphate which was entitled to Hazarat Ali (s.a.), but I don't think they curse them there is a big difference between the words "dislike some" one and "curse some one" and I don't think I need to elaborate more about that for an educated person like you.
Now you may have question why they dislike them? well, there are many reasons behind it, the main reason I mentioned above but for other reasons you need to dig in history and I am pretty sure that history will not lie.

Dearest Agakhani bhai, you curse only those whom you dislike !!

....you dont curse out people whom you love !

So saying they only dislike them is false ....Most hardcore ismailis hate the 1st 3 caliphs and thats the reason why they curse them.....same thing with other sister branches who curse agakhan and his family

History is always full of surprises so lets just live this present day in peace and encourage others to stop cursing others period !!

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:17 am

Afsos yaar,
Itna sara maine aapko detailse samjaya ki : kisisko lanat bhejna aour kisiko napansand karna me rat aour din ka fark hai, lekin afsos

FYI:- I never heard any Ismailis who were cursing first 3 Caliphs even though they all three deserve big Lanats.

xignifye · Post by **xignifye** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:01 pm

I don't know whether cursing is allowed or not but there few ginans which i have came across in which pir say not to curse

1) Ho jire raaja, Saant tani mukhe maar na hove, Maar hove toh saant kaisa.....( by pir kutub din)

2) there a verse in bavan bodth and so kriya i don't remember it exactly but i have heard it for sure....

there are few other ginans which i don't remember now but i will share when i recollect it

Post by **Admin** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:18 am

Using the same mouth which drinks holy water and then use it to curse or insult or defame someone, how good can this be?

It is even not matter of religion, it is matter of common sense!

prince_visram · Post by **prince_visram** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:44 pm

Admin wrote:Using the same mouth which drinks holy water and then use it to curse or insult or defame someone, how good can this be?

It is even not matter of religion, it is matter of common sense!

I completely understand and agree with your view, however, I have one question: What if one curses without being aware or not directed to someone in particular? Like they run into a wall or something and shed a swear word...

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:48 am

I have one question: What if one curses without being aware or not directed to someone in particular? Like they run into a wall or something and shed a swear word...

Don't worry, I think it will bounce back to the person who is cursed in your unawareness, but if you hurt some one feeling or you did something bad to the person intentionally and if he/she is Allah's true murid and if he/she curses in absence of you whether you aware it or not then it may still effect you but don't worry these kind peoples ( true murids of Allah) never curses any one.
History are loaded this kind curses in past in many religions including Islam too.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:24 am

Ho jire raaja, Saant tani mukhe maar na hove, Maar hove toh saant kaisa.....( by pir kutub din)

This remind me the story behind above ginanic verses! thanks for posting it here.
Now let me tell you the story behind it, in very short
This ginan was actually addressed to the king 'KAMAL' he ordered to deport all the sadhus (saints) from his kingdom and if any one still seen despite of this order then he ordered to kill them. Why he ordered like this? because one of his queen was ran away with one sadhu and thus he was thinking that all sadhus were hypocritical and same, so he ordered to deport them and kill them and he also started to curse and criticized them openly with bad words. so one night pir Kutub din came under his palace balcony and started to recite above ginan to teach him a lesson that whatever he was doing towards sadhus were not right things, he liked this ginan very well and came in influence of this ginan so he called pir to come in his palace and pir brought him right back on the right path and make him to stop cursing saint. This king was very nice and religious person before his queen ran away with one sadhu, he always respected all the saint before.

prince_visram · Post by **prince_visram** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:45 am

agakhani wrote:
Ho jire raaja, Saant tani mukhe maar na hove, Maar hove toh saant kaisa.....( by pir kutub din)
This remind me the story behind above ginanic verses! thanks for posting it here.
Now let me tell you the story behind it, in very short
This ginan was actually addressed to the king 'KAMAL' he ordered to deport all the sadhus (saints) from his kingdom and if any one still seen despite of this order then he ordered to kill them. Why he ordered like this? because one of his queen was ran away with one sadhu and thus he was thinking that all sadhus were hypocritical and same, so he ordered to deport them and kill them and he also started to curse and criticized them openly with bad words. so one night pir Kutub din came under his palace balcony and started to recite above ginan to teach him a lesson that whatever he was doing towards sadhus were not right things, he liked this ginan very well and came in influence of this ginan so he called pir to come in his palace and pir brought him right back on the right path and make him to stop cursing saint. This king was very nice and religious person before his queen ran away with one sadhu, he always respected all the saint before.

Here is a detailed version of the story you are mentioning. It is available in the Ginan section of this site:

Historical Background:

This geenaan was composed by Peer Kutubdeen, who lived in Gujraat in the times of King Kamal.

King Kamal was a very learned personality, well versed in theosophy, science and various fields
of art. One of his main hobbies was to invite learned gurus, philosophers to his court and hold
discussions on various subjects. People from far and wise used to attend this court where such
discussions were held at a very high academic level.

The story goes on that once a guru came to his court and fell in love with the Queen's maid, who
incidently was as pretty as the Queen herself. Taking advantage of his position, he ran away with
his maid, thinking that she was the Queen herself. When the King came to know about this, he
became very furious, and from thereon lost all his trust insuch gurus. Such was his anger and rage
that he ordered all the gurus should be killed.

Such a mass execution was the talk of the country, especially when it came from King Kamal.
In this confusion and disarray, many of them were killed, some fled the land and others changed
their attire to mask their identity.

When Peer Kutubdeen came to know of this, he in the guise of a peasant singer came into the
King's palace one evening, and recited this geenaan which is a response to this drastic measure of the King.

The story goes on that the King was really touched by this geenaan, apologised for his inadvertant
behaviour and withdrew his order of mass executions of the gurus.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:26 pm

The story goes on that once a guru came to his court and fell in love with the Queen's maid,

The lady who ran away with sadhu was not queen's maid but queen was herself.
It not seems right that a king ordered to execute any one for his maid, at that time he can find as many maids as he wanted but due to his own queen ran away with guru so that he disappointed and order to deport sadhu from his kingdom.
BTW story remain same whether that lady was queen or queen's maid.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:16 pm

AS
Perhaps this might help

On the prohibition against cursing a man or an animal
by Imam Nawawi

Chapter: On the prohibition against cursing a man or an animal

1. Abu Zayd Thabit ibn ad-Dahhak al-Ansari, one of the people of the Pledge of Ridwan, said that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Anyone who deliberately swears a false oath that he will adopt another religion than Islam [if he is not telling the truth], it will be as he said. Anyone who kills himself with something, will be punished with that thing on the Day of Rising. An oath which is a man is incapable of fulfilling is not binding on him. Cursing a believer is like killing him." [Agreed upon]

2. Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "It is not fitting for a truthful man to be someone who curses." [Muslim]

3. Abu'd-Darda' reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "People who curse will not be intercessors nor witnesses on the Day of Rising." [Muslim]

4. Samura ibn Jundub reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Do not curse one another with Allah's curse or His anger or the Fire." [Abu Dawud and at-Tirmidhi]

5. Ibn Mas'ud reported said that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "A believer is not an attacker nor a curser nor someone obscene or abusive." [at-Tirmidhi]

6. Abu'd-Darda' reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "If a slave of Allah curses something, the curse rises to the heaven and the gates of heaven are locked against it. Then it falls to the earth and the gates of the earth are locked against it and then it goes to the right and to the left and when it does not find any entrance, it returns to that which was cursed if it deserves it. Otherwise it returns to the one who said it." [Abu Dawud]

7. 'Imran ibn al-Husayn said, "On one of the journeys of the Messenger of Allah there was a woman of the Ansar on a she-camel. It was recalcitrant and she cursed it. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, heard that and said, 'Take off what is on it and let it go. It is cursed.'" 'Imran said, "It is as if I could see it now walking among the people and no one turned to it." [Muslim]

8. Abu Barza Nadla ibn 'Ubayd al-Aslami said, "On one occasion a slave girl was on a camel with some people's goods and she saw the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace. The mountains were hemming them in and she said, 'Move! O Allah, curse it!' The Prophet said, 'A she-camel bearing a curse will not accompany us.'" [Muslim]

The meaning of this hadith is unclear even if there is no unambiguity in it. What is meant is that that camel was forbidden to accompany them. It is not a prohibition against selling it, slaughtering it or riding it not in the company of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace. All those uses are permitted and not forbidden with the sole exception of being in his company. Allah knows best.

prince_visram · Post by **prince_visram** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:35 am

zznoor wrote:AS
Perhaps this might help

On the prohibition against cursing a man or an animal
by Imam Nawawi

...

Thank you. This was very informative indeed.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:45 am

zznoor,

Thanks for the detail information brother, in short cursing is not allowed in Islam.

MR-FORGET · Post by **MR-FORGET** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:15 pm

Do you know that Muawiya started as a royal farman to curse Hazarat Ali ( s.a.) in each and every mosque under his region after Fazar prayer?

No, I didn't but now I know after reading your this post, but I still want to make sure about this, can you please name any specific book in which it shows Muawiya's this inappropriate farman to curse Hazarat Ali (s.a.)? any website? any link?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:20 am

You can find this fact in many books, look any history books related to Hazarat Ali (s.a.) specially written by Shi'ite authors.

MR-FORGET · Post by **MR-FORGET** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:33 pm

I still like to have few names of these kind books, in English, Urdu, Persian, Hindi, Arabic or Gujarati. I am not in hurry take your time but please give me some names. l really appreciate for that because I need it for my own
research.
Waiting for your kind reply.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:03 am

Sorry for late reply, please look following books books and clips:-
1,"Khilfat o malookiat" written by Mowlana Syed Abu Al Ala Modudi.
2, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TrejT7WPcI
3, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZwsDCtL-Z8
4, Sunny Scholar book "History of the Saracens," by Amir Ali,
Chapter X, pp 126-127).
5, History of al-Tabari, v4, p188
6, Interesting website for more references
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter5a/1.html

Good thing is that all above clips and books are written by Sunny Scholars and if you still need more from Shia sources please let me know.

MR-FORGET · Post by **MR-FORGET** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:01 pm

Thank you very much brother, it is really helpful.
Does this event written in "Nooran Mubin"? a well known history book of Ismaili Imams.
Why Shia'tes scholars are quiet about this shameful events?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:52 am

Does this event written in "Nooran Mubin"? a well known history book of Ismaili Imams.

In the "Nooran Mubin" I have 'NO'

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:56 am

Why Shia'tes scholars are quiet about this shameful events?

They are not you can find this shameful event in many Shia scholar's book too and as I wrote above if you need the names of these books please let me know I will put it here.
The only reason I gave names of Sunny books and sunny links to prove that this event also written by Sunnis scholars too.

MR-FORGET · Post by **MR-FORGET** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:56 pm

Take your time if you are busy but I am still waiting for the names of Shia scholars books on the subject of cursing to Hazarat Ali. (s.a.)

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:27 am

I will put it here as soon as I have little time to search from my book list meanwhile I am little busy.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:29 am

The ceremony of cursing Ahle Bayat in mosque was called as Tabra and Mawiya and Yazid were responsible for this. You can find this in many history books.

As far as Ismailism is concerned, I know some of them out of hatred criticize Caliphs (By Caliphs I mean Abu bakr, Umar and Usman). However, I think they should not do that.
Hazrat Ali himself accepted Caliphate of the three caliphs so why you need to fight for it now.
Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah had sent had sent a message to Al-Islah Weekly of Karachi in which He mentioned “The political and worldly caliphate was accepted by Hazrat Ali in favour of three first caliphs voluntarily and with good will for the protection of the interest of the Muslims throughout the world. We Ismailis now in the same spirit accept the caliphate of first caliphs and such other caliphs who during the last thirteen centuries helped the cause of Islam, politically, socially and from a worldly point of view. On the other hand the spiritual Imamat remained with Hazrat Ali and remains with his direct descendants always alive till the day of judgement.”

Sultan Mohamed Shah in reply to TIMES, London stated “It is due to the spirit of tolerance of Islam that even the smallest Christian and Jewish minorities survived and kept all their doctrines during the thousand years of Muslim rule. Nothing like what happened to Muslims in Spain after the Christian conquest has ever happened to a non-Muslim Faith in any Islamic dominion. How, can Europeans be so ignorant as to have forgotten that in the first century of Islam the Khalifs ordered that all that was best in Greek and Roman cultures should be assimilated; that not only the philosophy, medicine and science of Greece, but its poetry and drama, were carefully translated into Arabic and were generally sought not only by the learned but also by the pious!”

www.ismaili.net

Is cursing (LANAT) allowed in Islam?

Is cursing (LANAT) allowed in Islam?

Muavia ordered to curse Hazarat Ali (s.a.) in every mosque?

story behind this ginan!

Re: story behind this ginan!